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15,000 apathetic households

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Guest MrFunk

 

Avoided voting for years because it was always the same shower of shit candidates. Got motivated and angry before the last election so registered, within 12 months I was signed up for dury duty despite never knowing anybody else who had ever been put forward including both parents who had been on the register if such a thing existed for 60+ years each. The trial was estimated to last 6 months, I pleaded to get out of it or at least be given a potentially shorter trial ...not possible. If my number would have been picked out of the hat then my business and income would have ended their and then. I had a couple of months of stress and worry over seeing it all go tits up at the whim of some government asshole. This letter can go in the bin with the other one.

It's Jury service, any person who is self employed can applied to be excused and that happens frequently. If you run a business and your jury service could affect the running then again you could apply to be excused. Your parents would not have "been put forward" all persons on the jury register are selected at random for jury service, this is from an annual list produced and is used by the Coroner's who are responsible for summonsing the jurors.

 

Yeah you're right of course, I just made the whole thing up to join in and sound interesting. The key is that you "apply" to be excused, I did, I wasn't. I understand how it is supposed to be random, I guess I'm just unlucky. Thanks for the words of wisdom but frankly I'll take the £1000 fine every time.

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I'm not so sure that's a bad thing. Do we really want all data on ourselves to be centralised and accessible by all governmental departments? There's something to be said for just providing each dept with only the info they need and nothing else. There's no real need for them to share everything with each other.

Too true.

I wouldn't trust them to run a whelk stall - let alone share data ( a central cock up would be much more serious than the same cock up in one department only )

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Got motivated and angry before the last election so registered, within 12 months I was signed up for dury duty despite never knowing anybody else who had ever been put forward including both parents who had been on the register if such a thing existed for 60+ years each.

 

Well I've always had you down as a blockhead.

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Mine only arrive yesterday.

Bit racist innit, considering that it is their New Year and whatever.smile.png

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Mine only arrive yesterday.

 

Bit racist innit, considering that it is their New Year and whatever.:)

....although that would be "allive"...

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So they kick a load of people of the register who did not ask to be removed now they want to force them all back. How many households are there 15,000 must be at least 50% of the population.

About 40,000 at a guess

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We're not really talking about the same thing. I agree that voter turnout numbers would be down (and that that is very bad), it's just that when politicians discuss turnout they usually refer to the percentage turnout[1] and poor registration practices can paradoxically increase that percentage.

 

 

Do they though? I'm not sure. Surely when turnout is discussed it is based on the number of people who would be eligible to vote regardless of whether they are registered or not? This information would be easily and pretty accurately available from the census which coincidentally occurs every 5 years the same as a general election (at least an interim census.)

 

Describing turnout as a percentage of people registered to vote would be a fairly meaningless statistic. I'm not saying the definitely don't use it, but if they do they shouldn't.

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Avoided voting for years because it was always the same shower of shit candidates. Got motivated and angry before the last election so registered, within 12 months I was signed up for dury duty despite never knowing anybody else who had ever been put forward including both parents who had been on the register if such a thing existed for 60+ years each. The trial was estimated to last 6 months, I pleaded to get out of it or at least be given a potentially shorter trial ...not possible. If my number would have been picked out of the hat then my business and income would have ended their and then. I had a couple of months of stress and worry over seeing it all go tits up at the whim of some government asshole. This letter can go in the bin with the other one.

It's Jury service, any person who is self employed can applied to be excused and that happens frequently. If you run a business and your jury service could affect the running then again you could apply to be excused. Your parents would not have "been put forward" all persons on the jury register are selected at random for jury service, this is from an annual list produced and is used by the Coroner's who are responsible for summonsing the jurors.

Yeah you're right of course, I just made the whole thing up to join in and sound interesting. The key is that you "apply" to be excused, I did, I wasn't. I understand how it is supposed to be random, I guess I'm just unlucky. Thanks for the words of wisdom but frankly I'll take the £1000 fine every time.

It's random, although I "think" you have more chance of being picked if you are from a parish with smaller catchment which might explain you and your parents.

 

Also some professions are excluded by default. It's all on the forms and the website.

 

I was selected three times over ten years. Once while I was employed and it would have lashed with go live on a previously planned and company critical project, and twice when I was self employed and it would have caused me issues, one of which being within a week of the due date of my son.

 

Each time I explained politely and was ecsused no problem at all.

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It could be that a lot of the forms were not returned returned becuase the owners were not in residence.

 

I recall asking someone in the finance industry, probably ten years ago, how many 'tax exiles' lived in the Isle of Man. The answer was circa 10,000 to 15,000. However, it was then explained to me that many of these move here and initially spend a year or so setting up a tax residence and establishing themselves on the Island. They then spend very little time here - and certainly not in the winter!

 

Makes sense to me.

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This whole saga does raise a number of issues.

 

The way to get people interested in politics is for our politicians to ensure that we have an interest in it, and it is relevant to what people want. Unfortunately their only interest is in maintaining both their own, and the state establishment's status quo. It is a bit rich for politicians to lay the blame at the populace's feet for political apathy and pass legislation to force people onto the electoral register - ( I accept they can't be made to vote) - to try and force an interest, when the fault is purely theirs through their own arrogance and self-interest.

 

As for these forms, well how are they ever going to prove:

 

1. That you received one,

2. That you didn't send it back,

3 That you didn't just bin it unopened as junk mail because it was not addressed individually,

4 That you personally were actually required by the Electoral Registration Officer to provide details,

5 That an unsigned impersonal and anonymous form could ever be deemed to be a requirement made under the Act,

6 That being informed by a third party that there was a requirement by the ERO is sufficient for the purposes of someone exercising a statutory power,

7 That the purported signature on a reminder letter which is merely a copy reproduced on a printer is sufficient for the purposes of someone exercising a statutory power,

8 That marking a head of household forms part of the information that the ERO requires to fulfill her statutory functions in compiling the Register,

9 That signing a declaration forms part of the information that the ERO requires to fulfill her statutory functions in compiling the Register?

 

Add to the mix these words from Shimmin a week or so back:

 

The Minister said any responses outstanding after that may then be referred to the Attorney General’s chambers. But he said there was ‘no intention of fining anybody for failing to comply with the legislation’. Those no longer eligible to vote will be notified in writing.

Now even the mighty and formidable Shimmin cannot bind any court as to a sentence it might wish to pass (and if he can, we should be told) so the only way he can make such a statement is that there will be no prosecutions. So why the threats on the forms, you might ask.
Probably 50,000 letters sent out in total at 44p a throw, makes at least £22400 to IOM Post Office. Don't worry thought, the government will get it all back from the Post office, but hell, it keeps Treasury pen pushers in jobs moving numbers around pieces of paper while no money changes hands.
Edited by Harry Valley
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I must say I am impressed that 15000 households have not complied by sending the form back...I am even more impressed that 15000 have not fallen for the fear porn of "£1000 fine"..

 

I don't have the form with me as it went in the bin, but I think it says "MAY" be fined £1000.

 

This is why non compliance on mass is so powerful, far better than petitions and demonstrations, imagine if 15000 people refused to get a drivers license, or pay income tax, or register property with these usurpers.

 

How can someone force another to fill in and sign a form, basically what they are saying is "sign this contract, or we will fine you, if you don't pay the fine then we will enforce it with violence."

 

I do hope its not just apathy as suggested, I suppose we will see how many drop when the threats start to roll.

 

The busy bodies with the clip board are going to get sore feet and lots of overtime by the looks of it....

 

Has anyone ever seen "the occupier " on a court summons before?.

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This whole saga does raise a number of issues.

 

The way to get people interested in politics is for our politicians to ensure that we have an interest in it, and it is relevant to what people want. Unfortunately their only interest is in maintaining both their own, and the state establishment's status quo. It is a bit rich for politicians to lay the blame at the populace's feet for political apathy and pass legislation to force people onto the electoral register - ( I accept they can't be made to vote) - to try and force an interest, when the fault is purely theirs through their own arrogance and self-interest.

 

As for these forms, well how are they ever going to prove:

 

1. That you received one,

2. That you didn't send it back,

3 That you didn't just bin it unopened as junk mail because it was not addressed individually,

4 That you personally were actually required by the Electoral Registration Officer to provide details,

5 That an unsigned impersonal and anonymous form could ever be deemed to be a requirement made under the Act,

6 That being informed by a third party that there was a requirement by the ERO is sufficient for the purposes of someone exercising a statutory power,

7 That the purported signature on a reminder letter which is merely a copy reproduced on a printer is sufficient for the purposes of someone exercising a statutory power,

8 That marking a head of household forms part of the information that the ERO requires to fulfill her statutory functions in compiling the Register,

9 That signing a declaration forms part of the information that the ERO requires to fulfill her statutory functions in compiling the Register?

 

Add to the mix these words from Shimmin a week or so back:

 

The Minister said any responses outstanding after that may then be referred to the Attorney General’s chambers. But he said there was ‘no intention of fining anybody for failing to comply with the legislation’. Those no longer eligible to vote will be notified in writing.

Now even the mighty and formidable Shimmin cannot bind any court as to a sentence it might wish to pass (and if he can, we should be told) so the only way he can make such a statement is that there will be no prosecutions. So why the threats on the forms, you might ask.
Probably 50,000 letters sent out in total at 44p a throw, makes at least £22400 to IOM Post Office. Don't worry thought, the government will get it all back from the Post office, but hell, it keeps Treasury pen pushers in jobs moving numbers around pieces of paper while no money changes hands.

 

Or alternatively you could just check the pre filled details and sign it. It takes seconds.

As opposed to the time it took to type out that shite.

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which reminds me.. anyone got one of those budweiser beer caps with connecting straws and a hawaian shirt i can borrow for the day. should do the trick, trouble is i look too rational and sensible i bound to be chosen otherwise

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