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Public sector pensions to undergo dramatic overhaul

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10 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

How did the Irish system get round any perceived legal challenges?

they had the nads to say this is it, tough shit. and any legal challenges could be swilled around the courts ad infinitum  like opposing lawyers letters in a divorce until the money has gone.

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23 minutes ago, WTF said:

they had the nads to say this is it, tough shit. and any legal challenges could be swilled around the courts ad infinitum  like opposing lawyers letters in a divorce until the money has gone.

And they had lenders standing there with a bail out that they needed or the lights would go out. We haven't reached that stage so the circus goes on.

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So the new DC scheme is voluntary and it’s going to fix everything apparently. So when you start work they say “You’re entitled to a DB pension schemes as part of your contract, but voluntarily you can opt for a shitter one instead. Which one do you want?” 

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A DC scheme is potentially more attractive to younger workers who won't be spending 30+ years with IOMG. It would allow flexibility with contributions and would be much more portable for a mobile workforce. The member of the scheme can also control how his or her funds are invested. To write it off as "shitter" as you so eloquently put it, it not correct. Its different.

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That nearly ranks alongside the time notwell explained to us that zero hour contract were actually a really good thing for me those on them. I take it you are the right side of the drawbridge

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Far easier for CoMin to get the taxpayer to fund the deficit

Twats

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3 hours ago, the stinking enigma said:

That nearly ranks alongside the time notwell explained to us that zero hour contract were actually a really good thing for me those on them. I take it you are the right side of the drawbridge

No - I was bored and read the report. It claimed that the average IOMG pension was in the region of £8500 which certainly doesn't indicate a workforce of long stayers. On the flipside however, the consultants who prepared the report were well versed in their field and no doubt have an eye on the design and sale of any future DC scheme.

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Does anyone know if the pension changes that affect NHS doctors mentioned here in the BMJ will also come into force in the IOM?  

Could be a problem in future

I have thought for some time that the way the gov handle public sector pensions is a significant disincentive for key professionals to move here but this could be a potential extra problem.

If we end up having, say,  less hospital consultants as a result, our already long waiting lists could become excessive. Someone I know is presently on a 5 month waiting list which I think is more than enough considering 'it' has a small chance of being summat sinister. 

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57 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said:

Does anyone know if the pension changes that affect NHS doctors mentioned here in the BMJ will also come into force in the IOM?  

Could be a problem in future

I have thought for some time that the way the gov handle public sector pensions is a significant disincentive for key professionals to move here but this could be a potential extra problem.

If we end up having, say,  less hospital consultants as a result, our already long waiting lists could become excessive. Someone I know is presently on a 5 month waiting list which I think is more than enough considering 'it' has a small chance of being summat sinister. 

Some waiting lists are three years!

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1 hour ago, ballaughbiker said:

Does anyone know if the pension changes that affect NHS doctors mentioned here in the BMJ will also come into force in the IOM?  

Could be a problem in future

I have thought for some time that the way the gov handle public sector pensions is a significant disincentive for key professionals to move here but this could be a potential extra problem.

If we end up having, say,  less hospital consultants as a result, our already long waiting lists could become excessive. Someone I know is presently on a 5 month waiting list which I think is more than enough considering 'it' has a small chance of being summat sinister. 

Read the article BB. Misleading.

There aren’t changes to NHS pensions. There are changes to the tax relief on the employees contributions to those pensions.

I think it’s limited to basic rate, rather than higher rate.

So that’s a U.K. tax thing. Won’t affect IoM.

The Manx and U.K. schemes used to be almost interchangeable and you could move to and fro, and the actuarial capital values were transferred, so you got the full pension from your final employer.

That stopped some time ago. Just like it did for state pensions not in payment. So you now get a part UK and a part IoM pension, based on qualifying years in each.

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Posted (edited)

Hmmmm, thanks JW. I could have posed the question better. So do I understand that if a, say, surgeon moves here and get tax relief on contributions at our rate then that, in isolation, might be no problem should they retire here?

However, is it correct that if they then leave, that bit of the pension 'pot' stays here to be tax at our max rate with no personal allowance? I accept that a chunk will likely be taxed at max rate anyway depending how long they have contributed and whether the bulk of contributions will be made towards the end of their employment where you contribute the most. 

A further twist to this seems to be that they could loose their right to a tax free lump sum  from the other jurisdiction, whichever that turns out to be. Can anyone confirm that? I have a small pension from working across in the 80s which has just matured, and if I take any lump sum it is all taxed here as income. 

Edited by ballaughbiker

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I think you are confusing and conflating.

Tax relief in IoM is at 20%. We don't have a higher rate. In uk it was at 40% but is now 20% ( I think). 

Neither affect where you will retire. Just to put £1 in used to cost 60p in England. It’s now 80p in both IoM and UK.

i think you are taxed where you reside when you are retired. Not sure about withholding taxes. One way or the other. There’s unilateral relief, anyway. Cost neutral if you have Manx earned pension paid from IoM but you live in UK.

Cant assist with cross border tax treatment of lump sums, sorry.

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Posted (edited)

But don't come here and earn a lot as hospital Consultant if you want to retire in the sun (ie a place that has no dual taxation agreement with IOM).

Such places usually have a dual taxation agreement with the UK so why would a UK  Consultant come to work here if that was their plan?  Mind you brexshit might scupper those plans to a degree anyway especially if they can't get private health insurance.

Edited by ballaughbiker
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1 hour ago, ballaughbiker said:

But don't come here and earn a lot as hospital Consultant if you want to retire in the sun (ie a place that has no dual taxation agreement with IOM).

Such places usually have a dual taxation agreement with the UK so why would a UK  Consultant come to work here if that was their plan?  Mind you brexshit might scupper those plans to a degree anyway especially if they can't get private health insurance.

It’s amazing that people still transfer across if they work in the public sector to be honest. Would anyone trust IOMG with their entire retirement needs? At least in the UK they can just print more money to pay you out and, as you say, you benefit (currently) from a huge number of DTAs with other countries. Brexit could possibly change all that though. 

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On 3/18/2016 at 6:33 PM, thesultanofsheight said:

The working population of the IOM is about 35,000 people. Only 8,500 of those people work in government so by far the majority of taxpayers who are contributing are not civil servants at all.

How times change. In 2016 there were 8,500 people working directly for government.

In 2019, after three years of cutting the size and scope of government in order to make savings and deliver efficiencies, the figure is up to 9,500.

:lol:

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