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Public sector pensions to undergo dramatic overhaul

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Union man says: It is possible to take measures that would affect current pensioners but I think everyone agrees this should be avoided if at all possible

 

Well I sure don't agree. Would consider that people with £75k + lump sums and/or pensions over £30k pa in addition to the state pension as "low hanging fruit" in the search for where to make savings. Why is the rich end of the current pensioner generation seen as sacrosanct when the young are going have to pay for it and yet to be lucky to see any decent retirement provision at all?


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How would you handle somone that had taken a £200k lump sum and a £20k p/a pension living in Spain v someone here doing the same? One you could tax, the other you couldn't.

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Union man says: It is possible to take measures that would affect current pensioners but I think everyone agrees this should be avoided if at all possible

 

Well I sure don't agree. Would consider that people with £75k + lump sums and/or pensions over £30k pa in addition to the state pension as "low hanging fruit" in the search for where to make savings. Why is the rich end of the current pensioner generation seen as sacrosanct when the young are going have to pay for it and yet to be lucky to see any decent retirement provision at all?

I agree with the sentiment. Although my mum retires this month with a similar lump sump but her pension is about 8 500 o'er year. For 38 years paying super annuation at decent percentage levels.

 

Not every worker is in the same boat.

 

Personally I'd protect the health service and teachers to some degree at least in line with the uk.

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Union man says: It is possible to take measures that would affect current pensioners but I think everyone agrees this should be avoided if at all possible

 

If you accept the principle that the people paying in today are paying the pensions of those who have already retired it's hard to accept that those who paid in virtually nothing and who have now retired should be further protected and insulated from everything, when those who are paying their pensions are being asked to stump up more to receive less from the next generation coming through. It just looks like a whole generation got a free ride and now everyone else just has to keep paying for it. I don't include health workers, teachers, or police in that. But the civil servants have just had a free ride for a whole generation.

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Union man says: It is possible to take measures that would affect current pensioners but I think everyone agrees this should be avoided if at all possible

If you accept the principle that the people paying in today are paying the pensions of those who have already retired it's hard to accept that those who paid in virtually nothing and who have now retired should be further protected and insulated from everything, when those who are paying their pensions are being asked to stump up more to receive less from the next generation coming through. It just looks like a whole generation got a free ride and now everyone else just has to keep paying for it. I don't include health workers, teachers, or police in that. But the civil servants have just had a free ride for a whole generation.

It's really quite staggering the stance of unions.

 

They seem to intimate that essentially there is no investment pot of money and it is simply a case of whatever comes in today pays for today's retired people.

 

How can that ever work when the benefits post retirement are so disproportionate to the contributions made? You could have three times as many people paying in but all it does is multiply the problem when those three times amount of people retire.

 

They then need nine times the amount to support them. It's a Ponzi scheme. A frightening one too.

 

Another ridiculous view of the unions is that an increase in contribution is effectively a pay cut. Yes, welcome to the real fucking world.

 

The increase isn't enough. Everyone should be contributing 15% . And benefits capped at sensible levels. It's nigh on impossible to change the past but the future costs can be managed.

 

The employer contribution is also a red herring. The actual contribution by the employer (the tax payer) is already at 100%

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Even if they can apply these figures to give this mess some sort of sustainable future there needs to be a forensic overhaul of why GUS has failed in such a short space of time, given the assurances that were given at its inception, which, I believe, are/will be the crux of the union's arguments.

 

And if people need to be disciplined or hung out to dry, certainly over rumours (And I've heard them from good sources as well) that the figures were doctored to protect certain contributing/receiving group's privileges then so be it.

 

There's far and away too much getting swept under the fucking rug on this Island.

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One you could tax, the other you couldn't.

What do you mean Tweek? Are you saying that someone now living in Spain receiving a Manx PS pension wouldn't pay tax here?

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How would you handle somone that had taken a £200k lump sum and a £20k p/a pension living in Spain v someone here doing the same? One you could tax, the other you couldn't.

Where they live is immaterial to making it fair to all and the wider population.

 

You could make an order to institute the principle of a pension contribution from the pension back to the scheme. I note that the Treasury Minister was contemplating making the rest of us pay NI contributions beyond pension age so why not for the PS pension scheme too?

 

It could be on a sliding scale. Pension up to £20k a year, no change. Pension between £20k and £25k - contribution 20% of that band. Pension between £25k and £30k - contribution 25% of that band. Pension between £30k and £40k - contribution 40% of that band. Pension between £30k and £40k - contribution 50% of that band. Pension over £40k (which is frankly indefensible) - contribution 80% on the excess.

 

Lump sums capped at £50k going forward (what is it supposed to be for?)

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Union man says: It is possible to take measures that would affect current pensioners but I think everyone agrees this should be avoided if at all possible

 

Well I sure don't agree. Would consider that people with £75k + lump sums and/or pensions over £30k pa in addition to the state pension as "low hanging fruit" in the search for where to make savings. Why is the rich end of the current pensioner generation seen as sacrosanct when the young are going have to pay for it and yet to be lucky to see any decent retirement provision at all?

I agree with the sentiment. Although my mum retires this month with a similar lump sump but her pension is about 8 500 o'er year. For 38 years paying super annuation at decent percentage levels.

 

Not every worker is in the same boat.

 

Personally I'd protect the health service and teachers to some degree at least in line with the uk.

 

She is not one of the people I have a problem with. See above. She would take the £50k capped lump sum and the rest could go towards a slightly higher pension for her still beneath the contribution level.

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Union man says: It is possible to take measures that would affect current pensioners but I think everyone agrees this should be avoided if at all possible

If you accept the principle that the people paying in today are paying the pensions of those who have already retired it's hard to accept that those who paid in virtually nothing and who have now retired should be further protected and insulated from everything, when those who are paying their pensions are being asked to stump up more to receive less from the next generation coming through. It just looks like a whole generation got a free ride and now everyone else just has to keep paying for it. I don't include health workers, teachers, or police in that. But the civil servants have just had a free ride for a whole generation.

 

Of course it is hard to accept. The problem is that those who could do something about it have a direct interest in keeping it the way it is.

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She is not one of the people I have a problem with

Me neither but it's never defined in these discussions who we are on about. Everyone, no matter how skillful or responsible or essential a job they have done for a working lifetime always seem to be just as bad as the ones you don't like.

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One you could tax, the other you couldn't.

What do you mean Tweek? Are you saying that someone now living in Spain receiving a Manx PS pension wouldn't pay tax here?

 

 

It doesn't make sense. Tax it at source.

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She is not one of the people I have a problem with

Me neither but it's never defined in these discussions who we are on about. Everyone, no matter how skillful or responsible or essential a job they have done for a working lifetime always seem to be just as bad as the ones you don't like.

 

It has to be based on the amount they are costing the scheme as I proposed above. I'm not suggesting we discriminate between people doing jobs we deem essential and those we deem a waste of space no matter how attractive that may seem.

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