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Petition: Add Manx nationality option to the Isle of Man Census


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No it hasn't - most countries in the world don't consider the IOM a sovereign country, we have a workaround to allow us to travel etc. in that we pay to use British sovereignty for that purpose.

 

There is no international law that states we are British and not Manx, to say there is is wrong.

Go back and read it again as I think you will find that has all been explained..

 

I've read your bollocks enough you condescending prick. International law does not prevent someone from having Manx nationality - that is simply untrue. You can wax lyrical all you like trying to make yourself look clever but that is a fact.

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The point is Barry that it's not an international census. It's not a British census, a United Kingdom census or a European census. If it was then your point would carry more weight. But it's not. It's an Isle of Man census and only an Isle of Man census. That's why it's important to people who are Manx, who were born here, who have their own separate and unique history, their own government, taxation, culture etc; and whose nationality is first and foremost Manx. It's a distinction that matters to many people.

 

Personally, if I'm honest I don't really care too much, but I see a principle and can understand the point that many people are making.

But the Isle of Man is British...Your government is merely a government by proxy at the end of the day if push comes to shove

 

The reference to international law was just made by Allan Bell on Manx Radio when he said that unfortunately you are British..

 

As has been explained most international law is a sort of mutual convention or agreement between nations..Under this principle you are recognised by others as British even if culturally you think Manx...It is not an international law stating "you are not Manx"..it is the way it is universally accepted..After all, as a Crown Dependency the census will be used or taken note of by the powers that be in London..

 

By all means be Manx but this is business and for this purpose and this census you cannot state "Manx"...Manx citizenship and nationality does not exist for this particular purpose...It is not me saying it!

 

Do they teach British Constitution and Civics on the Island? It was compulsory for four years in my day and I did it for GCE and have sort of kept up every since.

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No it hasn't - most countries in the world don't consider the IOM a sovereign country, we have a workaround to allow us to travel etc. in that we pay to use British sovereignty for that purpose.

 

There is no international law that states we are British and not Manx, to say there is is wrong.

Go back and read it again as I think you will find that has all been explained..

 

I've read your bollocks enough you condescending prick. International law does not prevent someone from having Manx nationality - that is simply untrue. You can wax lyrical all you like trying to make yourself look clever but that is a fact.

 

I have not said that international law specifically prevents you from being Manx...Go back and read it again and see how the concept of international law works...Allan Bell has just said it on Manx Radio...

 

It is not a law that says "You can't be Manx" it is all based on convention between nations and your Bosses in London have not made you independent and so you remain British for international purposes.

 

It is not written up in a big book that you cannot be Manx. It is just a concept or conventional acceptance between nations...So as the UK is the sovereign power other nations accept the UK definitions and that is you are British...Allan Bell just said it too.

 

There is of course the artificial and for Brussels purposes the "Manxman" definition given in Protocol 3 which I suppose is written up in a big book but that is for very narrow purposes. (And diminishing numbers of people are Manx under the artificial definition in protocol 3)

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It would be a good idea for the next census if there is one for the IOM to clear the way with London so as to get a dispensation making it possible to state "Manx" for an Island census. But only an Island census...The forms could be amended to show who is native Manx as it were.

 

The drawback might be the purpose to which census information is put..

 

For instance, under Protocol 3 the Island last I looked was meant to regularly advise "Europe" as to how many residents were "Manxmen" as defined by that Protocol...

 

Might spanner the works if those born on the Island or who thought of themselves as Manx said "Manx"??? I suggest???

 

It used to be that 30% of the population were Manxmen under Protocol 3 but I am told that the numbers have since fallen dramatically.

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How many are actually left?? Most will be bred out within the next decade or so surely?

About 48% of the population at the last census I think substantially more than any other Nation. Hence the changes to the form, probably designed to weaken the Manxness of the Island, and make it more Internationally ' saleable'

 

Actually the form really hasn't been changed[1]. All that has happened is that the question "What is the person's nationality" (which was asked in 2011 and 2006) now has 8 tick boxes with what they assume are the most common responses[2]. The last of which is Other for which you are then required to fill in what it is at one character per box, presumably to aid OCR[3]

 

And it still asks where you were born (Q9) immediately after the nationality question (Q8). So we will be able to tell how many have ticked the Isle of Man box, just as happened with previous Censuses. For what it's worth, I reckon that, instead of being just below 50% as the last two Censuses, it will actually be just over. Partly because of a more settled population (which is a good thing), but also because the population seems to be dropping[4] and more young people leaving the Island (which is a bad thing, especially economically).

 

 

[1] Actually I think it should be and the whole ancestry thing isn't asked in a way to give them the answers they think they want (not that they seem to publish it anyway). But this section has had the same useless wording for as long as I can remember - and woe betide the Manx civil servant who tries to change something on the mere grounds it doesn't work.

 

[2] British, Irish, Polish, Filipino, South Africa, Portuguese, German. The odd thing is despite collecting all this information I can't find it published anywhere because they aggregate nationalities into geographical areas (valid for privacy if only a few are involved) which not only loses information (are we getting more Romanians or more Spaniards?) but makes it difficult to compare between Censuses. For example any Croatian will be in different lines between 2011 and now.

 

[3] Good to see the IOMG implementing the very latest 1970s technology.

 

[4] The Government statistics for 2015 show deaths outnumbering births for the first time in many years as well as other indicators of decline such as electoral registrations (though most of that is incompetence) and electricity usage.

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There is one simple answer to all this talk, declare independence, take down all Union jacks, set up the barricades, broadcast on Manx Radio, "We will fight them on the beaches ETC", contact Janes book of flags, and say we Manx want the three legs put in it, as we are a sovereign nation.

Get Bell to ring Cameron to declare our that we are Manx and not British, that should do the trick.

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Do they teach British Constitution and Civics on the Island? It was compulsory for four years in my day and I did it for GCE and have sort of kept up every since.

 

 

Very good point. Judging from the posts most people have little idea about their constitution.

 

The same applies in the UK. A popular complaint is that few people understand how the EU works.

 

I cannot think of any valid reason as to why schools should not teach children the basics of how their country works.

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Do they teach British Constitution and Civics on the Island? It was compulsory for four years in my day and I did it for GCE and have sort of kept up every since.

 

 

Very good point. Judging from the posts most people have little idea about their constitution.

 

The same applies in the UK. A popular complaint is that few people understand how the EU works.

 

I cannot think of any valid reason as to why schools should not teach children the basics of how their country works.

 

 

I think the UK as a country is too busy teaching them the unquestioning acceptance of anything that is not of their country, these days......

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There is one simple answer to all this talk, declare independence, take down all Union jacks, set up the barricades, broadcast on Manx Radio, "We will fight them on the beaches ETC", contact Janes book of flags, and say we Manx want the three legs put in it, as we are a sovereign nation.

Get Bell to ring Cameron to declare our that we are Manx and not British, that should do the trick.

You forgot "Then starve."

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Do they teach British Constitution and Civics on the Island? It was compulsory for four years in my day and I did it for GCE and have sort of kept up every since.

 

 

Very good point. Judging from the posts most people have little idea about their constitution.

 

 

Judging from the posts the Government have little idea about what the people want.

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There is one simple answer to all this talk, declare independence, take down all Union jacks, set up the barricades, broadcast on Manx Radio, "We will fight them on the beaches ETC", contact Janes book of flags, and say we Manx want the three legs put in it, as we are a sovereign nation.

Get Bell to ring Cameron to declare our that we are Manx and not British, that should do the trick.

You forgot "Then starve."

 

As was predicted in most of the now thriving ex colonial states but failed to occur. Full independence have never been quantified partly because most politicians lack the balls to even discuss it but also because there are so many wise whenis who refuse to believe anywhere would survive without being British as the last 15 pages demonstrate.

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There is one simple answer to all this talk, declare independence, take down all Union jacks, set up the barricades, broadcast on Manx Radio, "We will fight them on the beaches ETC", contact Janes book of flags, and say we Manx want the three legs put in it, as we are a sovereign nation.

Get Bell to ring Cameron to declare our that we are Manx and not British, that should do the trick.

+ we'd all have to show passports to get on boat, therefore reducing crime! Failing to see the downside!

 

 

We would be so skint that nobody would bother coming over to rob us.

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