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Most pubs are getting quieter these days, it's just the way it is. It will take a smart person to start a new pub and make money.

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The Planning Dept have said they do not accept that it is past being continued as a Pub. Whether that is to the extent that they would refuse planning for a house or not, they don't say.

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It's a slightly different thing but there is a standard real world economics example where a successful jewellery shop 'A' (I think Regent Street London, but wherever) opposed the opening of a rival firm 'B' two doors down. They complained of over amenity or whatever the phrase is. They lost their case.

However what happened, not only did shop 'A' profits rise significantly but so did shop 'B' have similar profits.

The marketplace wasn't saturated, although shop 'A' thought it was. The marketplace  was only running on 40%, and so both shops did well by attracting more custom to that location and it became the 'go to' place for jewellery.

My point being is that honest competition is often a healthy thing for all concerned.

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3 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

Most pubs are getting quieter these days, it's just the way it is. It will take a smart person to start a new pub and make money.

Exactly right.

So why put a covenant on? (That question has an obvious answer of course)

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18 minutes ago, Annoymouse said:

The sad thing is they obviously know someone else could make it profitable and that's why they've put the covenants on it. 

Yeah...time planners got a grip and did a forced auction.

F*** these brew*** tos***

Times up.

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5 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Yeah...time planners got a grip and did a forced auction.

F*** these brew*** tos***

Times up.

Why Albert. They own it, so can sell to who and how. 

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2 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

Why Albert. They own it, so can sell to who and how. 

No. Buy stuff and be allowed to let it rot? Just to get a financial result and win?

When planning has said it's a pub not some private housing development.

Forced sale. Brewery get the f**k out.

It's a pub. Sell it as one and disallow any covenants.

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18 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

Most pubs are getting quieter these days, it's just the way it is. It will take a smart person to start a new pub and make money.

Food, food, food.

Three very nice pubs in my area, all offer very good food. Without the food they would not exist.

170414-035317_red-lion-1.jpg

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28 minutes ago, Kopek said:

Better to concentrate on their livelier pubs?

Do they have such a thing nowadays?

The dead, grasping hand of H&B have been at least as responsible for the downturn in local nightlife as changing social habits, the internet, supermarket beer, whatever.

Even their own pub managers say this. And are ignored. But rather than see anybody else make a success of it (and because some of their pubs have been sold to freehouse operators who have done just that) they'd rather crush the whole trade whilst they diversify into other things.

A Competition and Markets Authority as in UK would have a field day over here.

ETA. Some of these decaying and unsold pubs are listed buildings. Why aren't they required to be upkept?

Edited by Non-Believer
Extra bit
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'' A Competition and Markets Authority as in UK would have a field day over here. '' but they might say that there is too much competition for the market!!!

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33 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

I doubt that it could ever get back to being a busy and profitable pub. It was always a pub that had to be driven to and from and the DD laws being firmly applied now have stopped that.

Even when Graham and Danny had it and ran a transport bus it died on its arse and they had it bouncing once.

But even if H&B can stop 20 people leaving their pubs to drink in a possible new venture then it's worth it to them to put a covenant on any sales.

For me Liverpool arms was about pub lunches, log fire in winter and BBQ in summer (well the potential was there) ran well it was always busy, it will never be a drinking pub for the reasons you mention but it is on a bus route so the option for evening drinkers and perhaps a pool league etc is there

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-47095794?fbclid=IwAR3Gp7L6a6qgZaYHLjhIvSMpC7CpPUyj8ZgxFfXwiL9Pv5D-qGkXklwtQAg

Quote

The Baldrine watering hole was recently put up for sale by brewery Heron and Brearley for £310,000, with a stipulation that new owners did not run the building as a pub.

But planners said the brewery had failed to demonstrate why it could not be made commercially successful again in the future.

 

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45 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

I doubt that it could ever get back to being a busy and profitable pub. It was always a pub that had to be driven to and from and the DD laws being firmly applied now have stopped that.

Even when Graham and Danny had it and ran a transport bus it died on its arse and they had it bouncing once.

But even if H&B can stop 20 people leaving their pubs to drink in a possible new venture then it's worth it to them to put a covenant on any sales.

Not sure it died when they had it. It died once Nigel took over

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40 minutes ago, gettafa said:

It's a slightly different thing but there is a standard real world economics example where a successful jewellery shop 'A' (I think Regent Street London, but wherever) opposed the opening of a rival firm 'B' two doors down. They complained of over amenity or whatever the phrase is. They lost their case.

This is the Isle of Man though where honest competition does not exist. The following model usually applies. 

Shop A was set up in 1910 by the owner of shop A’s great-grandfather. Shop A has been selling different versions the same thing for over 50 years giving a really nice living to three generations of Shop A family members. Shop B opens up in the same street undercutting Shop A in a competitive situation. On lodge night over and few pints the owner of Shop A manages to convince a man he went to school with that Shop B should not exist. The following Wednesday Shop B is found to be in breach of several planning rules and regulations and must cease trading until it can prove to the person spoken to by the owner of Shop A that it complies. Eventually the owner of Shop B sells the property to the owner of Shop A as he can’t get a license to trade and can’t pay his mortgage. The owner of Shop A leaves the Shop B property lying empty for the next 20 years. 

Edited by thesultanofsheight
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9 minutes ago, Kopek said:

'' A Competition and Markets Authority as in UK would have a field day over here. '' but they might say that there is too much competition for the market!!!

If some people with some actual enthusiasm for the trade were given more of a look in it might boost the market.

The market has currently been virtually destroyed by the actions of one near monopoly operator with little or no interest in the wants of the customer and little intention of allowing any enthusiasm or competition into what's left of the market. While it builds interest in other areas.

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