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Yes, yes, your opinion and analysis is fair enough.

But the point is why sell it with a covenant at all?

In their attitude towards competition the brewery are fuelling the overall decline in the pub trade.

 

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In the IRIS plant if the last time I tried it was anything to go by.....

I cannot understand why John, as a lawyer, is arguing that black is white on this. One red herring after another. It isn't fit for purpose? Well it was supposedly fit for purpose very recently after u

State of the food in the brewery pubs I doubt the ‘chefs’ need worry about this affecting them too much.

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15 minutes ago, gettafa said:

Yes, yes, your opinion and analysis is fair enough.

But the point is why sell it with a covenant at all?

In their attitude towards competition the brewery are fuelling the overall decline in the pub trade.

 

There are probably too many pubs on the Island for the size of the population and the market ---many are struggling already to get a reasonable return. Why would the brewery actively seek competition to their own premises and further adversely affect their own operation??  They have operated pretty successfully for over 120 years and are managing change in a declining market  in the way they feel is best for their business . 

You obviously don't agree, But it is their business to run as they see fit.  

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The real argument here, as most of us know, is this: If (It's a big if) a pub chain like Wetherspoon's ever did see enough business here to even express an interest; we all know that with one phone call H&B would have it blocked. No planning, no appeal, nothing. It wouldn't go anywhere. Because H&B can do that, and have done that. The Isle of Man - Where You Can.

 

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I think I am right in saying that there was a no alcohol covenant on the site where Tesco's was built? I think they applied to lift that at the Chancery Court (Order 40 I think?) I suppose one could do the same with the LA or any other?

An advocate told me that the descendants of those who applied these covenants earn big money agreeing to have them lifted.

As I recall Goldie Taubman of the Nunnery back in the day applied a lot of no booze covenants. Methodism was behind a lot of it.

One would see notices about lifting covenants in the back of the IOM papers. ie Any objections folks?

Down on my manor the closed local "Admiral J McHardy" has been granted Asset of Community Value status for five years. The owner must offer it for sale to the community for six months but is not obliged to sell. Trouble is it is hard to get planning permission for development or demolition if ACV status applies although there are appeal procedures out of the Council's power.

https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/historic-chelmsford-pub-admiral-j-2484467

England anyway has a Localism Act which is preventing some noteworthy pubs and other places from closing and getting change of use under planning is not always granted...I add a link out of .

I doubt the IOM has a Localism Act??

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2 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

The real argument here, as most of us know, is this: If (It's a big if) a pub chain like Wetherspoon's ever did see enough business here to even express an interest; we all know that with one phone call H&B would have it blocked. No planning, no appeal, nothing. It wouldn't go anywhere. Because H&B can do that, and have done that. The Isle of Man - Where You Can.

 

I did have correspondence with Witherspoons man and he said he would look into it. But as you say...……..Manx Crab!

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12 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said:

I did have correspondence with Witherspoons man and he said he would look into it. But as you say...……..Manx Crab!

Of course you did BS. You can’t even spell their name

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23 minutes ago, emesde said:

There are probably too many pubs on the Island for the size of the population 

Need a return to the heady days of 200+ years ago

"In 1822, there were 443 public-houses or about one to every 90 of the population,"

"There can be no doubt that the Manx ... were, between 1700 and 1800, and, to a less extent, between 1800 and 1857, a very drunken people"

Might explain the huge numbers of lunatics mind.

I love this site

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Yeah that page I've linked to talks about the filthy conditions. Fascinating stuff.

"It will have been gathered from what has been said of the towns that sanitary precautions were almost entirely neglected. As late as 1833, the Douglas householders stated that there was " a great want of proper sewerage and cleanliness."

I'd love to know more about this period of manx history, it sounds rough as fuck. No wonder so many people left.

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56 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

The real argument here, as most of us know, is this: If (It's a big if) a pub chain like Wetherspoon's ever did see enough business here to even express an interest; we all know that with one phone call H&B would have it blocked. No planning, no appeal, nothing. It wouldn't go anywhere. Because H&B can do that, and have done that. The Isle of Man - Where You Can. Can't

 

Just thought the amendment made the sentence a little more accurate

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58 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

The real argument here, as most of us know, is this: If (It's a big if) a pub chain like Wetherspoon's ever did see enough business here to even express an interest; we all know that with one phone call H&B would have it blocked. No planning, no appeal, nothing. It wouldn't go anywhere. Because H&B can do that, and have done that. The Isle of Man - Where You Can.

 

I'm  not sure that is true as I think the people most likely to object to a Wetherspoon opening would be the LVA as their members  would probably be the biggest losers.

Wetherspoons will not operate, as far as I know, where they cannot get a turnover well  in excess of £30,000 per week (1.5 million pa ) . If they felt they could get that in Douglas it would just about close or bankrupt every free trader in the area  (possibly one exception) . If you think that is good for the trade as a whole and and worth it in order to cut a few pence off a pint so be it. It would certainly not increase choice and would destroy a lot of livelihoods. Running a single large pub from a distance is an expensive operation and they would be unlikely to be able to offer the same deals as in their UK pubs.  I Believe they did look at the IOM as a possible market at one time but in every way it did not stack up as a business proposition.

Please don't think I am against Wetherspoons, as I even have their app on my phone  :D But the IOM is a very small market and expensive to operate in remotely .

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