Jump to content
Manx Forums, Live Chat, Blogs & Classifieds for the Isle of Man
Tempus Fugit

Pubs closing

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, gettafa said:

The brewery 'thinks' it is protecting its business. But that is schoolboy economics. (and at that, the sort of schoolboy that owns a football or has a big pocket full of marbles).

Regarding the butchers analogy, if you consider the example of the jewellers in Regent Street I made earlier, then the butcher might be better to leave the now redundant shop to market forces. Someone moves in and makes a proper go of it as a butchers shop and succeeds, but in so doing attracts more trade to the area and both butchers do well.

I am not saying that would be the case with the Liverpool Arms but what I am saying is that it should be left to market forces to decide. The brewery won't lose by it, but it is the way they are going about it.

And on a perhaps not unrelated matter, how many times has a shit business blamed competition when it fact the reason for a business failing was a little closer to home.

It’s a business choice by the selling land owner as to whether they decide to impose a restriction and any potential purchaser as to whether they agree to purchase subject to the restriction.

Everyone seems to overlook that anyone can try to establish a pub, or restaurant, or jewellers, or a butchers, where they want, subject to planning and licensing food hygiene, fire, etc.approvals. The LA ha planning, indeed planning to change to residential has been refused. Does it have a licence? If a new one was applied for would it pass ( in its present form ) food and fire regs checks?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, yes, your opinion and analysis is fair enough.

But the point is why sell it with a covenant at all?

In their attitude towards competition the brewery are fuelling the overall decline in the pub trade.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, gettafa said:

Yes, yes, your opinion and analysis is fair enough.

But the point is why sell it with a covenant at all?

In their attitude towards competition the brewery are fuelling the overall decline in the pub trade.

 

There are probably too many pubs on the Island for the size of the population and the market ---many are struggling already to get a reasonable return. Why would the brewery actively seek competition to their own premises and further adversely affect their own operation??  They have operated pretty successfully for over 120 years and are managing change in a declining market  in the way they feel is best for their business . 

You obviously don't agree, But it is their business to run as they see fit.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The real argument here, as most of us know, is this: If (It's a big if) a pub chain like Wetherspoon's ever did see enough business here to even express an interest; we all know that with one phone call H&B would have it blocked. No planning, no appeal, nothing. It wouldn't go anywhere. Because H&B can do that, and have done that. The Isle of Man - Where You Can.

 

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I am right in saying that there was a no alcohol covenant on the site where Tesco's was built? I think they applied to lift that at the Chancery Court (Order 40 I think?) I suppose one could do the same with the LA or any other?

An advocate told me that the descendants of those who applied these covenants earn big money agreeing to have them lifted.

As I recall Goldie Taubman of the Nunnery back in the day applied a lot of no booze covenants. Methodism was behind a lot of it.

One would see notices about lifting covenants in the back of the IOM papers. ie Any objections folks?

Down on my manor the closed local "Admiral J McHardy" has been granted Asset of Community Value status for five years. The owner must offer it for sale to the community for six months but is not obliged to sell. Trouble is it is hard to get planning permission for development or demolition if ACV status applies although there are appeal procedures out of the Council's power.

https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/historic-chelmsford-pub-admiral-j-2484467

England anyway has a Localism Act which is preventing some noteworthy pubs and other places from closing and getting change of use under planning is not always granted...I add a link out of .

I doubt the IOM has a Localism Act??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

The real argument here, as most of us know, is this: If (It's a big if) a pub chain like Wetherspoon's ever did see enough business here to even express an interest; we all know that with one phone call H&B would have it blocked. No planning, no appeal, nothing. It wouldn't go anywhere. Because H&B can do that, and have done that. The Isle of Man - Where You Can.

 

I did have correspondence with Witherspoons man and he said he would look into it. But as you say...……..Manx Crab!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said:

I did have correspondence with Witherspoons man and he said he would look into it. But as you say...……..Manx Crab!

Of course you did BS. You can’t even spell their name

Edited by dilligaf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, emesde said:

There are probably too many pubs on the Island for the size of the population 

Need a return to the heady days of 200+ years ago

"In 1822, there were 443 public-houses or about one to every 90 of the population,"

"There can be no doubt that the Manx ... were, between 1700 and 1800, and, to a less extent, between 1800 and 1857, a very drunken people"

Might explain the huge numbers of lunatics mind.

I love this site

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They needed all those pubs because you didn’t drink the water. The pub was there to refresh yourself. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah that page I've linked to talks about the filthy conditions. Fascinating stuff.

"It will have been gathered from what has been said of the towns that sanitary precautions were almost entirely neglected. As late as 1833, the Douglas householders stated that there was " a great want of proper sewerage and cleanliness."

I'd love to know more about this period of manx history, it sounds rough as fuck. No wonder so many people left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

There were 7 (seven) pubs in fucking Bride!

.....and the gene pool in Bride still remains f**ked to this day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

.....and the gene pool in Bride still remains f**ked to this day.

Isn't The Stinking Enigma from up that way...?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

The real argument here, as most of us know, is this: If (It's a big if) a pub chain like Wetherspoon's ever did see enough business here to even express an interest; we all know that with one phone call H&B would have it blocked. No planning, no appeal, nothing. It wouldn't go anywhere. Because H&B can do that, and have done that. The Isle of Man - Where You Can. Can't

 

Just thought the amendment made the sentence a little more accurate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

The real argument here, as most of us know, is this: If (It's a big if) a pub chain like Wetherspoon's ever did see enough business here to even express an interest; we all know that with one phone call H&B would have it blocked. No planning, no appeal, nothing. It wouldn't go anywhere. Because H&B can do that, and have done that. The Isle of Man - Where You Can.

 

I'm  not sure that is true as I think the people most likely to object to a Wetherspoon opening would be the LVA as their members  would probably be the biggest losers.

Wetherspoons will not operate, as far as I know, where they cannot get a turnover well  in excess of £30,000 per week (1.5 million pa ) . If they felt they could get that in Douglas it would just about close or bankrupt every free trader in the area  (possibly one exception) . If you think that is good for the trade as a whole and and worth it in order to cut a few pence off a pint so be it. It would certainly not increase choice and would destroy a lot of livelihoods. Running a single large pub from a distance is an expensive operation and they would be unlikely to be able to offer the same deals as in their UK pubs.  I Believe they did look at the IOM as a possible market at one time but in every way it did not stack up as a business proposition.

Please don't think I am against Wetherspoons, as I even have their app on my phone  :D But the IOM is a very small market and expensive to operate in remotely .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...