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Experiment in direct democracy


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For a politician to rely on an internet poll to decide how to vote in Tynwald shows either huge naivety about the reality of the internet or incredibly poor judgement.

I think Stinky was just having a laugh. Though surely in a direct democracy if 51% of us say you should get a haircut, you should.

 

 

 

Like I said, good luck.

 

We both know you won't be able to prove anything, because you cannot prove whether your accounts and votes were filtered out or not, whereas it is possible for us to verify everyone manually if necessary.

 

Thanks again for keeping the thread live.

 

J.

Au contraire. If you claim you can filter out votes at will then it suggests you can rig the whole thing top to bottom. That's actually a worse outcome that just being exposed for being shit.

 

Not really. The terms and conditions clearly state that your real name is required. If you're choosing to ignore that then we are at liberty to delete your account - as you know we are doing with your fake accounts. It is still possible at this stage for us to manually verify accounts as the numbers we are dealing with are still relatively low and a lot of the people who are taking part are known. If necessary it is possible to verify votes back to the people who voted also. No problem. As discussed, if the project develops it will be possible to produce a system which could do the same automatically - verify the individual and verify that their vote has not been tampered with. If you know as much about programming as you're purporting you know this, you're just desperately trying to cling on to something.

 

Thanks again for keeping the thread live.

 

J.

But only we know the fake accounts. You don't. You can't delete anything randomly with any certainty otherwise you undermine everything and subvent democracy. So it completely invalidates everything. We're the only people who can prove an account is actually fake. Not you. Details of user names, logins, email addresses, and posts and votes. They'll all be passed on.

 

 

 

And only we know what was counted. You don't. You're really not that bright are you?

 

Passed on to who? Someone who cannot verify they were counted. All you're doing is giving us material to discuss how the system can be improved (because we are not going to pretend that people have not tried to create fake accounts), although I'm sure you actually believe what you're saying.

 

Thanks again.

 

J.

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The animosity and insults in this thread are really breaking my heart, my achy breaky heart.

 

If you don't agree with the democracy.im website, go set up your own. If you have an alternative idea, go and set it up. But to sit there setting up sock puppets to badmouth someone who is trying to do something for the island, well, that just makes you a cock.

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Like I said, good luck.

 

We both know you won't be able to prove anything, because you cannot prove whether your accounts and votes were filtered out or not, whereas it is possible for us to verify everyone manually if necessary.

 

Thanks again for keeping the thread live.

 

J.

 

Au contraire. If you claim you can filter out votes at will then it suggests you can rig the whole thing top to bottom. That's actually a worse outcome that just being exposed for being shit.

 

Not really. The terms and conditions clearly state that your real name is required. If you're choosing to ignore that then we are at liberty to delete your account - as you know we are doing with your fake accounts. It is still possible at this stage for us to manually verify accounts as the numbers we are dealing with are still relatively low and a lot of the people who are taking part are known. If necessary it is possible to verify votes back to the people who voted also. No problem. As discussed, if the project develops it will be possible to produce a system which could do the same automatically - verify the individual and verify that their vote has not been tampered with. If you know as much about programming as you're purporting you know this, you're just desperately trying to cling on to something.

 

Thanks again for keeping the thread live.

 

J.

But only we know the fake accounts. You don't. You can't delete anything randomly with any certainty otherwise you undermine everything and subvent democracy. So it completely invalidates everything. We're the only people who can prove an account is actually fake. Not you. Details of user names, logins, email addresses, and posts and votes. They'll all be passed on.

 

And only we know what was counted. You don't. You're really not that bright are you?

 

Passed on to who? Someone who cannot verify they were counted. All you're doing is giving us material to discuss how the system can be improved (because we are not going to pretend that people have not tried to create fake accounts), although I'm sure you actually believe what you're saying.

 

Thanks again.

 

J.

It's you who isn't that bright. There are people who can probably verify 75% of the fake votes on your site and there are loads. You can't do that as you have no idea. There were even really obvious ones who posted and voted (Philip Gawne, and Tony Blair spring to mind) who have not had their votes cancelled. That can be proven. It takes a 2 minute login to check that a vote is still valid or not. The obvious ones were handed to you on a plate. But records have been kept of all the sleepers too. They will be passed on. Not that you can cancel anything anyway. If this goes to Keys on the 19th it's a complete turkey shoot.

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The animosity and insults in this thread are really breaking my heart, my achy breaky heart.

 

If you don't agree with the democracy.im website, go set up your own. If you have an alternative idea, go and set it up. But to sit there setting up sock puppets to badmouth someone who is trying to do something for the island, well, that just makes you a cock.

Are you gay? I only ask as I like a man with a good mullet. It reminds me of David Hasslehoff in 1989 I'd tear your Berlin Wall down. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

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It's you who is completely fucking mental. Why are you creating all these fake accounts on his site in the first case? Maybe Robertshaw was right and people like you should fuck right off and get a job. I can't believe anyone with a job or a family would spend their day doing that on a website just to try and prove a point. You should take a copy of this thread to your GP and seek help.

Edited by Billy
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Like I said, good luck.

 

We both know you won't be able to prove anything, because you cannot prove whether your accounts and votes were filtered out or not, whereas it is possible for us to verify everyone manually if necessary.

 

Thanks again for keeping the thread live.

 

J.

Au contraire. If you claim you can filter out votes at will then it suggests you can rig the whole thing top to bottom. That's actually a worse outcome that just being exposed for being shit.

 

Not really. The terms and conditions clearly state that your real name is required. If you're choosing to ignore that then we are at liberty to delete your account - as you know we are doing with your fake accounts. It is still possible at this stage for us to manually verify accounts as the numbers we are dealing with are still relatively low and a lot of the people who are taking part are known. If necessary it is possible to verify votes back to the people who voted also. No problem. As discussed, if the project develops it will be possible to produce a system which could do the same automatically - verify the individual and verify that their vote has not been tampered with. If you know as much about programming as you're purporting you know this, you're just desperately trying to cling on to something.

 

Thanks again for keeping the thread live.

 

J.

But only we know the fake accounts. You don't. You can't delete anything randomly with any certainty otherwise you undermine everything and subvent democracy. So it completely invalidates everything. We're the only people who can prove an account is actually fake. Not you. Details of user names, logins, email addresses, and posts and votes. They'll all be passed on.

 

And only we know what was counted. You don't. You're really not that bright are you?

 

Passed on to who? Someone who cannot verify they were counted. All you're doing is giving us material to discuss how the system can be improved (because we are not going to pretend that people have not tried to create fake accounts), although I'm sure you actually believe what you're saying.

 

Thanks again.

 

J.

It's you who isn't that bright. There are people who can probably verify 75% of the fake votes on your site and there are loads. You can't do that as you have no idea. There were even really obvious ones who posted and voted (Philip Gawne, and Tony Blair spring to mind) who have not had their votes cancelled. That can be proven. It takes a 2 minute login to check that a vote is still valid or not. The obvious ones were handed to you on a plate. But records have been kept of all the sleepers too. They will be passed on. Not that you can cancel anything anyway. If this goes to Keys on the 19th it's a complete turkey shoot.

 

 

 

It takes two minutes to log in and check that a vote is still valid - you mean that the system is still telling you it's valid? We look forward to all your "proof"

 

Lol.

 

J.

Edited by James Hampton
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The animosity and insults in this thread are really breaking my heart, my achy breaky heart.

 

If you don't agree with the democracy.im website, go set up your own. If you have an alternative idea, go and set it up. But to sit there setting up sock puppets to badmouth someone who is trying to do something for the island, well, that just makes you a cock.

Are you gay?

 

Maybe. Maybe not. What if I am? Using "Gay" as an insult is about as old as the mullet. Get with the times.

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Like I said, good luck.

 

We both know you won't be able to prove anything, because you cannot prove whether your accounts and votes were filtered out or not, whereas it is possible for us to verify everyone manually if necessary.

 

Thanks again for keeping the thread live.

 

J.

 

Au contraire. If you claim you can filter out votes at will then it suggests you can rig the whole thing top to bottom. That's actually a worse outcome that just being exposed for being shit.

 

Not really. The terms and conditions clearly state that your real name is required. If you're choosing to ignore that then we are at liberty to delete your account - as you know we are doing with your fake accounts. It is still possible at this stage for us to manually verify accounts as the numbers we are dealing with are still relatively low and a lot of the people who are taking part are known. If necessary it is possible to verify votes back to the people who voted also. No problem. As discussed, if the project develops it will be possible to produce a system which could do the same automatically - verify the individual and verify that their vote has not been tampered with. If you know as much about programming as you're purporting you know this, you're just desperately trying to cling on to something.

 

Thanks again for keeping the thread live.

 

J.

But only we know the fake accounts. You don't. You can't delete anything randomly with any certainty otherwise you undermine everything and subvent democracy. So it completely invalidates everything. We're the only people who can prove an account is actually fake. Not you. Details of user names, logins, email addresses, and posts and votes. They'll all be passed on.

 

And only we know what was counted. You don't. You're really not that bright are you?

 

Passed on to who? Someone who cannot verify they were counted. All you're doing is giving us material to discuss how the system can be improved (because we are not going to pretend that people have not tried to create fake accounts), although I'm sure you actually believe what you're saying.

 

Thanks again.

 

J.

It's you who isn't that bright. There are people who can probably verify 75% of the fake votes on your site and there are loads. You can't do that as you have no idea. There were even really obvious ones who posted and voted (Philip Gawne, and Tony Blair spring to mind) who have not had their votes cancelled. That can be proven. It takes a 2 minute login to check that a vote is still valid or not. The obvious ones were handed to you on a plate. But records have been kept of all the sleepers too. They will be passed on. Not that you can cancel anything anyway. If this goes to Keys on the 19th it's a complete turkey shoot.

 

It takes two minutes to log in and check that a vote is still valid - you mean that the system is still telling you it's valid?

 

Lol. You're too funny.

 

J.

Oh yeah, Internet mind games. You are so full of shit. It's going to be great to expose this on Tuesday. Fake users, fake votes, and most from off Island IP addresses. Is there more than 20 actual people who support direct democracy in the IOM?

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The animosity and insults in this thread are really breaking my heart, my achy breaky heart.

 

If you don't agree with the democracy.im website, go set up your own. If you have an alternative idea, go and set it up. But to sit there setting up sock puppets to badmouth someone who is trying to do something for the island, well, that just makes you a cock.

 

Are you gay?

Maybe. Maybe not. What if I am? Using "Gay" as an insult is about as old as the mullet. Get with the times.

I said that I only asked as I think a man with a mullet is quite attractive. You seem like a Richard Dean Anderson or David Hasslehoff type - 1980's rugged.

Edited by TrampyHamster
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Like I said, good luck.

 

We both know you won't be able to prove anything, because you cannot prove whether your accounts and votes were filtered out or not, whereas it is possible for us to verify everyone manually if necessary.

 

Thanks again for keeping the thread live.

 

J.

Au contraire. If you claim you can filter out votes at will then it suggests you can rig the whole thing top to bottom. That's actually a worse outcome that just being exposed for being shit.

 

Not really. The terms and conditions clearly state that your real name is required. If you're choosing to ignore that then we are at liberty to delete your account - as you know we are doing with your fake accounts. It is still possible at this stage for us to manually verify accounts as the numbers we are dealing with are still relatively low and a lot of the people who are taking part are known. If necessary it is possible to verify votes back to the people who voted also. No problem. As discussed, if the project develops it will be possible to produce a system which could do the same automatically - verify the individual and verify that their vote has not been tampered with. If you know as much about programming as you're purporting you know this, you're just desperately trying to cling on to something.

 

Thanks again for keeping the thread live.

 

J.

But only we know the fake accounts. You don't. You can't delete anything randomly with any certainty otherwise you undermine everything and subvent democracy. So it completely invalidates everything. We're the only people who can prove an account is actually fake. Not you. Details of user names, logins, email addresses, and posts and votes. They'll all be passed on.

 

And only we know what was counted. You don't. You're really not that bright are you?

 

Passed on to who? Someone who cannot verify they were counted. All you're doing is giving us material to discuss how the system can be improved (because we are not going to pretend that people have not tried to create fake accounts), although I'm sure you actually believe what you're saying.

 

Thanks again.

 

J.

It's you who isn't that bright. There are people who can probably verify 75% of the fake votes on your site and there are loads. You can't do that as you have no idea. There were even really obvious ones who posted and voted (Philip Gawne, and Tony Blair spring to mind) who have not had their votes cancelled. That can be proven. It takes a 2 minute login to check that a vote is still valid or not. The obvious ones were handed to you on a plate. But records have been kept of all the sleepers too. They will be passed on. Not that you can cancel anything anyway. If this goes to Keys on the 19th it's a complete turkey shoot.

 

It takes two minutes to log in and check that a vote is still valid - you mean that the system is still telling you it's valid?

 

Lol. You're too funny.

 

J.

Oh yeah, Internet mind games. You are so full of shit. It's going to be great to expose this on Tuesday. Fake users, fake votes, and most from off Island IP addresses. Is there more than 20 actual people who support direct democracy in the IOM?

 

 

 

Well the accounts you reference have been deleted, and you're claiming they're still showing votes when you check. I don't know shit about computers but that don't sound like very good proof to me.

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Like I said, good luck.

 

We both know you won't be able to prove anything, because you cannot prove whether your accounts and votes were filtered out or not, whereas it is possible for us to verify everyone manually if necessary.

 

Thanks again for keeping the thread live.

 

J.

 

Au contraire. If you claim you can filter out votes at will then it suggests you can rig the whole thing top to bottom. That's actually a worse outcome that just being exposed for being shit.

 

Not really. The terms and conditions clearly state that your real name is required. If you're choosing to ignore that then we are at liberty to delete your account - as you know we are doing with your fake accounts. It is still possible at this stage for us to manually verify accounts as the numbers we are dealing with are still relatively low and a lot of the people who are taking part are known. If necessary it is possible to verify votes back to the people who voted also. No problem. As discussed, if the project develops it will be possible to produce a system which could do the same automatically - verify the individual and verify that their vote has not been tampered with. If you know as much about programming as you're purporting you know this, you're just desperately trying to cling on to something.

 

Thanks again for keeping the thread live.

 

J.

But only we know the fake accounts. You don't. You can't delete anything randomly with any certainty otherwise you undermine everything and subvent democracy. So it completely invalidates everything. We're the only people who can prove an account is actually fake. Not you. Details of user names, logins, email addresses, and posts and votes. They'll all be passed on.

 

And only we know what was counted. You don't. You're really not that bright are you?

 

Passed on to who? Someone who cannot verify they were counted. All you're doing is giving us material to discuss how the system can be improved (because we are not going to pretend that people have not tried to create fake accounts), although I'm sure you actually believe what you're saying.

 

Thanks again.

 

J.

It's you who isn't that bright. There are people who can probably verify 75% of the fake votes on your site and there are loads. You can't do that as you have no idea. There were even really obvious ones who posted and voted (Philip Gawne, and Tony Blair spring to mind) who have not had their votes cancelled. That can be proven. It takes a 2 minute login to check that a vote is still valid or not. The obvious ones were handed to you on a plate. But records have been kept of all the sleepers too. They will be passed on. Not that you can cancel anything anyway. If this goes to Keys on the 19th it's a complete turkey shoot.

 

It takes two minutes to log in and check that a vote is still valid - you mean that the system is still telling you it's valid?

 

Lol. You're too funny.

 

J.

Oh yeah, Internet mind games. You are so full of shit. It's going to be great to expose this on Tuesday. Fake users, fake votes, and most from off Island IP addresses. Is there more than 20 actual people who support direct democracy in the IOM?

 

Well the accounts you reference have been deleted, and you're claiming they're still showing votes when you check. I don't know shit about computers but that don't sound like very good proof to me.

No they haven't And you know that's a fact. It's all being recorded. It's fine bullshitting users on an Internet forum for a 2 minute read but the actual stuff is all well logged and recorded.

 

The 19th is the day Phil says he will stand up and present.

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