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Experiment in direct democracy


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For a politician to rely on an internet poll to decide how to vote in Tynwald shows either huge naivety about the reality of the internet or incredibly poor judgement.

I think Stinky was just having a laugh. Though surely in a direct democracy if 51% of us say you should get a haircut, you should.

Too many people discover these computer thingies and allowed their perhaps limited but nonetheless imaginative minds to find a digital application that comes up with a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist.

 

But no problem, because it seems they are knowledgeable and intelligent due to their enthusiatic ramblings about stuff few others actually understand, they receive a certain amount of plausibility.

 

More on topic, anyone here remember e-habitant?

Edited by gettafa
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Weevil Central has gone quiet.

What is there to add? The only thing that happened was the Craggy Steve beat us to publishing the info to head things off at the pass to save any potential embarrassment. Nobody said that the flaws wouldn't have been notified and commented on anyway if you go back through this thread. As I understand it that's not all the accounts though. As has already been observed though - it wasn't hard to spot accounts like Les Bien, Allan Bell or Prince Charles was it? And I understand that they all posted several comments specifically alerting the admins to the fact that the joke accounts existed. The admins didn't have to hunt anything down as it was all made so plainly obvious; so all that talk of the computer act etc is bullshit. As for claims of libel. As part on an election campaign Gawne would look a right twat with his self claimed democracy credentials trying to make a point to silence people who exercised their democratic right to show this sham up for what it is by making a joke post suggesting he thought about democracy when sitting on the bog. Popped egos spring to mind and that's about it. You'll prove internet mob rule is the sole objective of all this nonsense going down that approach.

 

On a more serious note. After the Brexit farce you seem to not gauge the level of public antipathy towards ill thought through movements like this. They are dangerous and divisive and they are not democratic at all. They are just a baying pit for internet losers to vent their spleen on. It's only ill-informed counter productive energy that sites like this produce. We have one of the oldest democracies in the world and we should be proud of that. Yes it has issues but those are not structural issues by and large (and Lisvane might fix some of those anyway) they are issues to do with the caliber of some of the people coming forward to stand and a refusal of people to listen (one of the worst candidates in the not listening camp being Gawne himself so let's be clear on that point). This will never replace that. In fact it will cheapen the whole process. As for Hampton his comments on here of last night gave it all away. All he wants is the credit and the public recognition (adulation?) for this - he does not want any of the responsibility that comes with public office or any of the criticism that comes from people who don't agree with him. At least people like Beecroft and Gawne (to a degree) are prepared to put themselves in the firing line which is what being a politician is surely all about?

 

Anyway quite a few people think this is a shit idea. That's a democracy for you. Suck it up.

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The only thing that happened was the Craggy Steve beat us to publishing the info to head things off at the pass to save any potential embarrassment.

Worst Bond villain ever.

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The only thing that happened was the Craggy Steve beat us to publishing the info to head things off at the pass to save any potential embarrassment.

Worst Bond villain ever.

That's the truth though isn't it? The details would have been posted anyway and that has always been clear. You yourself said not to post them on here on page one of this thread. An 8 year old could have found all that stuff as the fake posters apparently even identified themselves to the admins by making several posts as 'Allan Bell' etc. It was never going to take a genius was it? It's a democracy. If people didn't like it - tough shit.

Edited by Weevil central
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Weevil Central has gone quiet.

What is there to add? The only thing that happened was the Craggy Steve beat us to publishing the info to head things off at the pass to save any potential embarrassment. Nobody said that the flaws wouldn't have been notified and commented on anyway if you go back through this thread. As I understand it that's not all the accounts though. As has already been observed though - it wasn't hard to spot accounts like Les Bien, Allan Bell or Prince Charles was it? And I understand that they all posted several comments specifically alerting the admins to the fact that the joke accounts existed. The admins didn't have to hunt anything down as it was all made so plainly obvious; so all that talk of the computer act etc is bullshit. As for claims of libel. As part on an election campaign Gawne would look a right twat with his self claimed democracy credentials trying to make a point to silence people who exercised their democratic right to show this sham up for what it is by making a joke post suggesting he thought about democracy when sitting on the bog. Popped egos spring to mind and that's about it. You'll prove internet mob rule is the sole objective of all this nonsense going down that approach.

 

On a more serious note. After the Brexit farce you seem to not gauge the level of public antipathy towards ill thought through movements like this. They are dangerous and divisive and they are not democratic at all. They are just a baying pit for internet losers to vent their spleen on. It's only ill-informed counter productive energy that sites like this produce. We have one of the oldest democracies in the world and we should be proud of that. Yes it has issues but those are not structural issues by and large (and Lisvane might fix some of those anyway) they are issues to do with the caliber of some of the people coming forward to stand and a refusal of people to listen (one of the worst candidates in the not listening camp being Gawne himself so let's be clear on that point). This will never replace that. In fact it will cheapen the whole process. As for Hampton his comments on here of last night gave it all away. All he wants is the credit and the public recognition (adulation?) for this - he does not want any of the responsibility that comes with public office or any of the criticism that comes from people who don't agree with him. At least people like Beecroft and Gawne (to a degree) are prepared to put themselves in the firing line which is what being a politician is surely all about?

 

Anyway quite a few people think this is a shit idea. That's a democracy for you. Suck it up.

 

I thought Craggy Steve pissed on your parade really.

 

He's covered every point. He's made some excellent observations and you look silly really.

 

Also, let's not get away from what this was - an internet based opinion poll that isn't about to make decisions in centrral government. Something you appear to have lost sight of in your obsessive behaviour. Did Phil Gawne bend one up your missus or something?

Edited by notwell
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The only thing that happened was the Craggy Steve beat us to publishing the info to head things off at the pass to save any potential embarrassment.

Worst Bond villain ever.

That's the truth though isn't it? The details would have been posted anyway and that has always been clear. You yourself said not to post them on here on page one of this thread. An 8 year old could have found all that stuff as the fake posters apparently even identified themselves to the admins by making several posts as 'Allan Bell' etc. It was never going to take a genius was it? It's a democracy. If people didn't like it - tough shit.

 

 

Hmmm. Think I named a few of the invalid accounts, a long way from all of them, and I haven't told anyone except Kate & Phil how many were removed or how many remain, so you don't actually have a clue how hard or easy our removal process was - you're just talking out of your arse like most of your previous posts ;)

 

(and I was sat watching this thread unfold with a massive grin on my gob)

 

If you want to discuss the appropriateness or otherwise of greater public consultation and the use of such consultations to influence decision making then go ahead, and I suspect many of us are happy to debate that because it a complex and far from black & white issue. But you should probably refrain from commenting on the capabilities and competence of implementation of technology, it's not your forté.

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Weevil Central has gone quiet.

What is there to add? The only thing that happened was the Craggy Steve beat us to publishing the info to head things off at the pass to save any potential embarrassment. Nobody said that the flaws wouldn't have been notified and commented on anyway if you go back through this thread. As I understand it that's not all the accounts though. As has already been observed though - it wasn't hard to spot accounts like Les Bien, Allan Bell or Prince Charles was it? And I understand that they all posted several comments specifically alerting the admins to the fact that the joke accounts existed. The admins didn't have to hunt anything down as it was all made so plainly obvious; so all that talk of the computer act etc is bullshit. As for claims of libel. As part on an election campaign Gawne would look a right twat with his self claimed democracy credentials trying to make a point to silence people who exercised their democratic right to show this sham up for what it is by making a joke post suggesting he thought about democracy when sitting on the bog. Popped egos spring to mind and that's about it. You'll prove internet mob rule is the sole objective of all this nonsense going down that approach.

 

On a more serious note. After the Brexit farce you seem to not gauge the level of public antipathy towards ill thought through movements like this. They are dangerous and divisive and they are not democratic at all. They are just a baying pit for internet losers to vent their spleen on. It's only ill-informed counter productive energy that sites like this produce. We have one of the oldest democracies in the world and we should be proud of that. Yes it has issues but those are not structural issues by and large (and Lisvane might fix some of those anyway) they are issues to do with the caliber of some of the people coming forward to stand and a refusal of people to listen (one of the worst candidates in the not listening camp being Gawne himself so let's be clear on that point). This will never replace that. In fact it will cheapen the whole process. As for Hampton his comments on here of last night gave it all away. All he wants is the credit and the public recognition (adulation?) for this - he does not want any of the responsibility that comes with public office or any of the criticism that comes from people who don't agree with him. At least people like Beecroft and Gawne (to a degree) are prepared to put themselves in the firing line which is what being a politician is surely all about?

 

Anyway quite a few people think this is a shit idea. That's a democracy for you. Suck it up.

I thought Craggy Steve pissed on your parade really.

 

He's covered every point. He's made some excellent observations and you look silly really.

 

Also, let's not get away from what this was - an internet based opinion poll that isn't about to make decisions in centrral government. Something you appear to have lost sight of in your obsessive behaviour. Did Phil Gawne bend one up your missus or something?

I have already confessed that I only kept posting these last few days to keep Dr Weevil mouthing off, and keep the thread on the front page in the hope more people would contribute. I must apologise to those who had to endure wading through it, and thank those who did make useful contributions.

 

I have dropped in on MF every now and then over the last few years, but have never really taken the time to get involved as it always looked to me to be a rather negative site more interested in tearing things down than thinking about solutions. I also found it difficult to generate motivation to discuss with anonymous posters. Dr Weevil aside its clear though that there are some folks here who are interested in debating things to a deeper level than you generally find elsewhere, and I look forward to more lively debate and some full on trolling as the project evolves.

 

Thanks again to the site admins and the contributors.

 

J.

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