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1 hour ago, thesultanofsheight said:

I've always believed that if you don't have a joint income around the £50k mark as a family it's a real struggle to have a decent lifestyle here if you have kids. Everything day to day is just far too expensive all your money just goes on bills and living costs.

I agree, but I don't mind paying a bit more to live on the island I was born on and love so much. I would never want it to become just another little bit of England and think we just have to accept that is always going to be dearer to live here than over there.

Just my simple opinion.

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13 minutes ago, woolley said:

Exactly. You are describing globalisation in action. It is a scourge. Every time I attack globalisation on here there is a deafening chorus defending it as progressive. Hook line and sinker. Go figure.

Don't go confusing attacks on the EU and rabid supporting of Brexit as a critique on globalization.

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4 minutes ago, hboy said:

Don't go confusing attacks on the EU and rabid supporting of Brexit as a critique on globalization.

What makes you think I'm doing that? You are conflating totally separate issues and my support of Brexit is in any case not at all rabid. It's based on belief in national sovereignty and accountability.

I've often written about globalisation on here and how it benefits only the powerful who control global capital. Everyone else who gets in the way, from people having their villages bulldozed in China to make way for cheap labour sweatshops, to those in post industrial areas and sink estates in the first and second worlds such as voted for Trump are just collateral damage. Politicians have been suckered into the whole thing by people much smarter than they are.

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8 minutes ago, woolley said:

What makes you think I'm doing that? You are conflating totally separate issues and my support of Brexit is in any case not at all rabid. It's based on belief in national sovereignty and accountability.

I've often written about globalisation on here and how it benefits only the powerful who control global capital. Everyone else who gets in the way, from people having their villages bulldozed in China to make way for cheap labour sweatshops, to those in post industrial areas and sink estates in the first and second worlds such as voted for Trump are just collateral damage. Politicians have been suckered into the whole thing by people much smarter than they are.

You sound like you've finally found the road to Damascus. Let us rejoice. I think you might find that a lot of people who have read your posts for the last 18 months might well regard your support of Brexit to be, well, more than a bit rabid. Not to be confused with globalization in the least though.

Edited by hboy

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If I ever cared what you think hboy, I stopped a very long time ago. :) Which particular road to Damascus are you referring to?

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Just now, woolley said:

If I ever cared what you think hboy, I stopped a very long time ago. :) Which particular road to Damascus are you referring to?

The bit where Saul stopped hating the Christians. 

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1 minute ago, woolley said:

Ah. I don't remember writing about that at all.

No, but you've just acted it out script perfect. 

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No. I don't think so. I've been posting about the evils of globalisation for as long as I've been on here. And I haven't changed my opinion now and it has nothing to do with Brexit.

One from 4 years ago:

On 04/09/2013 at 11:54 AM, woolley said:

But the "modern world" is by definition a recent anomaly. That's all it is; an anomaly. Globalisation, slave labour, ship stuff around the world mentality etc. that Tony Blair and his ilk were so keen on being duped into will not last, and the closer we can be to being able to feed ourselves in times of shortage the better it will be for us. Surely that is true for any country, not to mention the balance of trade. Too many people are afflicted by not seeing the Isle of Man in terms of a country, and more cannot see beyond the present when there is a supermarket full of imported stuff just down the road. It won't always be like that. We should be as self sufficient as we possibly can be. For an Island community in an uncertain world it's just common sense.

 

And competition is not 100% good. It isn't that simple. Market forces have brought us job insecurity and worry as work is exported to slave labour economies, lower pay, shoddy goods, long supply lines, cheap fat and sugar filled food and power concentrated in the hands of a few mega retailers who call the shots over the producers. Before cheering for competition at all costs, just have a think about whether your job might be next in the firing line.

One from 6 years ago:

On 30/11/2011 at 5:33 PM, woolley said:

 

Yes, and in the same period there has been a massive move from corporate taxes to personal taxes of one kind or another. Globalisation and Private equity buyouts have driven this as they tend to be structured so that the onshore business makes a loss and/or is loaded with so much debt that it makes no taxable profit. There are so many examples of this. Profits are then offshored to tax havens where they get off lightly or totally. I am generally pro business but what has happened is indefensible and has also produced the debt and currency crises. 

 

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Well Brexit didn't exist in 2011 and 2013. How far back is Saul wanting to go on this road to Damascus moment? 

Edited by hboy

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1 hour ago, dilligaf said:

I agree, but I don't mind paying a bit more to live on the island I was born on and love so much. I would never want it to become just another little bit of England and think we just have to accept that is always going to be dearer to live here than over there.

Just my simple opinion.

Personal opinion...there's a difference between having to pay a bit more to live over here. And having to pay a lot more because it's being squandered and or paying for massive governmental and fiscal cock ups and incompetence, past and present.

I'd suggest that we are now in danger of being locked into a vicious spiral of inflation with Govt increasing charges, contributing to inflation figures, which are then countered by PS pay demands. Which are then granted because it's politically expedient to do so given the PS political weight carried. In order to meet this, Govt increases charges. And so on.

Those who will pay the price of this are the private sector and the low paid. There's enough evidence of this already, surely?

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8 minutes ago, hboy said:

Well Brexit didn't exist in 2011 and 2013. How far back is Saul wanting to go on this road to Damascus moment? 

So therefore, in your own words contradicting what you said in your snidey comment 10 posts back, my anti-globalisation stance has nothing to do with Brexit. QED.

Another one for you for good measure:

On 12/05/2017 at 11:19 AM, woolley said:

 

You know, the sort of stuff I'm always banging on about.

Mainly the corporate governance initiatives and stopping multi-nationals taking the "globalisation" mickey with tax havens and the like while freeloading on the economy, but not paying their share to sustain it. Stopping executive pay excesses by firms who pay poorly at the bottom of the tree. Establishing industrial strategy in places that have been left behind in the globalisation era. I'm all for the market but it doesn't always work for everyone and needs a measure of intervention which is lacking.

 

 

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The Woolley Patent Guide to Countering Provocation and the Avoidance of Online Conflict.

Spot the obvious casus belli. Usually a totally random barb calculated to irritate and inflame lobbed in out of the blue and usually out of context. With a bit of experience they stick out as though they were printed in bold red. Example:

Don't go confusing attacks on the EU and rabid supporting of Brexit as a critique on globalization.

Never react aggressively. Challenge the premise calmly and with facts.

Then there is the claim to advocacy for some assumed reasonable yet silent majority who for some obscure reason cannot speak up for themselves and require a benevolent spokesperson:

I think you might find that a lot of people who have read your posts for the last 18 months might well regard your support of Brexit to be, well, more than a bit rabid….

Make it clear that he is entitled to his opinion but it is of no importance to you. "A lot of people....." can speak for themselves if they are so inclined.

Do not engage in name calling. Ever.

Then there is the annoying claim that you have changed your tune about something – when clearly you haven’t.

You sound like you've finally found the road to Damascus. Let us rejoice.

Do not rise to it. If you have the time, post the evidence to the contrary as in the case of this thread above.

If the agent provocateur becomes cornered then silence generally ensues or as in this case the reasonable sounding but usually obfuscating and often self-contradictory climbdown:

Well Brexit didn't exist in 2011 and 2013.  

Quite. And totally demolishing his original accusation that I had confused my “rabid support for Brexit” with a critique on globalisation.

And note, we about managed to have that exchange without effing and blinding and calling each other various organs of the body.

ETA after later provocative post:

After you have proved the point beyond any reasonable doubt, you may well be accosted again with insults and risible claims that you have been "called out"

Again, do not rise to it. Just leave it for posterity to tell its own story.

Feel free to have the last word though, hboy. I enjoyed our little exchange on here last night and what it illustrates. Glad I dropped by.

The optimum way of engaging with this inciteful posting is never to become annoyed or abusive, and to answer all points calmly and factually, no matter how erroneous or provocative the premise. I commend it to the House.

Edited by woolley
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You really are a big girl Woolley. 

You got called out fair and square and now you're claiming to be the forums Gandhi.

You still seem to have an incredible issue with not getting your own way and being challenged, quite legitimately, on here for the views that you post. 

 

Edited by hboy

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