Tarne Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 We can't get rid of LegCo. We don't vote for it, therefore we have no say outside of massive protests. And well, it's too cold for those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 It needs to be the House of Keys that gets rid of LegCo Unfortunately the vote on the issue will be probably be a Tynwald one, but there's still hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 We don't need to get rid of legco. We need to make sure it's popularly elected. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 It needs to be the House of Keys that gets rid of LegCo Unfortunately the vote on the issue will be probably be a Tynwald one, but there's still hope I have my reservations about Legco but what is the alternative? I believe that we do need some sort of scrutiny of legislation by competent individuals who have not been involved in the process of drawing it up. I am not in favour of Legco members sitting on committees, let's get Lisvane implemented! If it were democratically elected, we would end up with the same people who inhabit the Keys. Unless the candidates are proposed by a body of some sort, we will end up with the usual failed MHKs sneaking in before they are ousted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I believe that we do need some sort of scrutiny of legislation by competent individuals who have not been involved in the process of drawing it up. There's your problem - too often we have alcoholics and dickheads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 I've said it before, our parliament is Tynwald. The branches only sit separately to consider legislation. Legco members should have no different entitlement to be ministers, or whatever, than keys members. BUT 1. They must be popularly elected. 2. There must be a proper voting mechanism to resolve in case of disagreement between branches. The real issue is the fact that the current structure is institutionally corrupt with everyone, almost, taking the Chief Ministers shilling SO 3. Each department to have only one political member. The minister. 4. There should be a standing committee shadowing and scrutinising each department, with a chair and two members, 5. Committees to be elected by Tynwald back benchers only, not by CoMin. THAT LEAVES STATUTORY BOARDS, CORPORATIONS 6. These should be owned through a state holding corporation with a board chaired by an MT but the board of each separate operating company to be outside non executives, union representatives and executive directors from the industry itself. Gives everyone a job, no one loses out initially, starts the process of separating being a member of Tynwald from being a member of a government department, increases scrutiny which is independent of and not beholden to CoMin, starts moves towards establishing an opposition. Lisvane is nonsense. It won't work, won't strengthen democracy and it won't improve scrutiny. He didn't understand what Tynwald is. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I believe that we do need some sort of scrutiny of legislation by competent individuals who have not been involved in the process of drawing it up. There's your problem - too often we have alcoholics and dickheads. Yup the one guy who could have added value didn't even get a look in ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 We don't need to get rid of legco. We need to make sure it's popularly elected. Fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Prom Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 We don't need legco. Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 We don't need to get rid of legco. We need to make sure it's popularly elected. I honestly don't see the point of that or what it would achieve. Worse case it could simply become an elected group of preening granny farming self-interested wasters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 The point is that any system of democracy needs sufficient numbers of elected members in its parliamentary body to 1. Form an executive, CoMin 2. To scrutinise and hold to account the actions of the executive, government departments and civil service ( the back benchers through committees ) 3. To scrutinise executive and departmental proposals for legislation ( the branches ) Currently we have 33 in Tynwald, including CoMin (9) and Speaker and President. Of the other 22 all bar 1 have a post in a government department and a pay increase. None of them can be seen as independent to scrutinise actions and legislation and the only difference in legitimacy between Keys and Council members is the veneer of popular election. To have a properly functioning legislature which scrutinises and holds the executive to account you need a sufficient number of back benchers and in our system, where ultimate legislative and scrutiny power is Tynwald and NOT the branches, it doesn't matter if they are members of keys or council. For that you need about 20 in addition to CoMin and the presiding officers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 All the while we do not have the opportunity to vote in a government based on a set of policies, we have a sham democracy. The departmental memberships are simply a mechanism, operated at our expense, to buy loyalty and avoid criticism and the voting down of governmental decisions. LegCo is blatantly undemocratic, given that government can simply put anything they are defeated on in the Keys to a vote in full Tynwald. It's all very well to call for direct election of LegCo, but what would be the point? We don't need that much government in such a small Island. As I have said before, we are smaller than many unitary authorities in Scotland and England. Get rid of them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I haven't bothered reading it. Am I missing out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 We've certainly seen Globetrotter use public funds & the good offices of Chris Thomas to create a manifesto for his government, which he couldn't be arsed to do himself in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Which of the incumbents is going to push for change to "the best club in the world"? (Quote, Rodan). Another 1000 years of Tynwald, I'd say...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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