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So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

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12 hours ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

 

Because the EU is not a 'State', it is a political enterprise nothing more.

It has no legal basis in any International Court outwith it's own 'ECJ', it cannot sue (or be sue'd) - It cannot take International legal action against UK or any other 'State' because it simply does not have the legal status to do so.

I cannot even protect it's own citizens from harm because, not being a 'State' it cannot legally 'Declare War' on an aggressor.

 

Suggest you go read Art 47 of the Lisbon Treaty. It is a legal entity, it is recognised, and can and does, join other organisations where it is recognised as a “state”. It can sue and be sued.

The ECJ is for intra EU member disputes.

Thats why the exit treaty provisions and the £39 million agreement are so important. It stops, by settlement, years of possible international claims and arbitrations.

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I reckon 99% of this thread runs like this:

1. Angry person posts a really good reason to support the ERG. 

2. Cursory checking of the facts by other posters shows without doubt that said angry person has been completely misinformed. 

3. Said angry person gets even more angry - not with the liers that poured the poison in their ear, but with the posters on here that presented the facts to them. 

4. Angry person goes back to the same sources that lied to them over and over to find a new ‘really good reason to support the ERG’. 

5. Return to 1.

I think this has come about because leavers  have invested too much emotional capital in Brexit to ever change their minds. Their behaviour is more like that of supporters of a sports team than people genuinely wanting the best for their country. That is a big problem for the Remain side. You can argue facts, you can’t argue ‘feelings’. 

 

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1 hour ago, Freggyragh said:

I think this has come about because leavers  have invested too much emotional capital in Brexit to ever change their minds. Their behaviour is more like that of supporters of a sports team than people genuinely wanting the best for their country. That is a big problem for the Remain side. You can argue facts, you can’t argue feelings bigotry.

Fixed!

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Here's some Project Fear flipping and a floundering like a, well, you get the idea. 

 

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Anyone sensible (i.e. non-ERG) will know that a no deal brexit would be catastrophic.

Therefore expect plenty of pressure to kettle MP's behind The Maybot's so-called "deal".

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On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 4:11 PM, Shake me up Judy said:

You can add Ireland to that as well P.K. A basket case until they joined the EU and the money started rolling in. Now look at them. Spain's problems were of their own making; ditto Greece. Italy has always been a basket case since the time of Mussolini.   

Rather since the days of Garibaldi and Mazzini. The component parts of Italy had to be forced together like Bismarck  did with Germany. Italy is still regional and Italians take great delight in not obeying the law and anything else that comes out of Rome. 

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18 hours ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

Because the EU is not a 'State', it is a political enterprise nothing more.

It has no legal basis in any International Court outwith it's own 'ECJ', it cannot sue (or be sue'd)

 

6 hours ago, John Wright said:

Suggest you go read Art 47 of the Lisbon Treaty. It is a legal entity, it is recognised, and can and does, join other organisations where it is recognised as a “state”.

Ouch.  Sick burn!

Edited by Bobbie Bobster

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12 hours ago, John Wright said:

Suggest you go read Art 47 of the Lisbon Treaty. It is a legal entity, it is recognised, and can and does, join other organisations where it is recognised as a “state”. It can sue and be sued.

The ECJ is for intra EU member disputes.

Thats why the exit treaty provisions and the £39 million agreement are so important. It stops, by settlement, years of possible international claims and arbitrations.

Only two entities disagree with you. Me, and the EU :rolleyes:

The Lisbon Treaty is an INTERNAL AGREEMENT OF THE EU - Is the USA, China, et al bound by the Lisbon Treaty??? What date did they sign it???

I sincerely hope that you do not charge for your legal opinions!

This is what the EU's own website says;

"The European Union has legal personality and as such its own legal order which is separate from international law. Furthermore, EU law has direct or indirect effect on the laws of its Member States and becomes part of the legal system of each Member State. The European Union is in itself a source of law. The legal order is usually divided into primary legislation (the Treaties and general legal principles), secondary legislation (based on the Treaties) and supplementary law."

One might as well say,

"The Peel Swingers Club has legal personality and as such its own legal order which is separate from international law. Furthermore, Peel Swingers Club law has direct or indirect effect on the laws of its Member Swingers and becomes part of the legal system of each Member who Swings. The Peel  Swingers Club is in itself a source of law. The legal order is usually divided into primary legislation (the Treaties and general legal principles), secondary legislation (based on the Treaties) and supplementary law."

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/6/sources-and-scope-of-european-union-law

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1081066/brexit-news-latest-brexit-divorce-bill-european-court-of-justice-ecj

Clue is in; 'Member State' - If you ain't a 'Member State' Then you don't have to play by the Golf Club rules, Swinger Club rules or EU rules cause you ain't a Golf Club member, Member Swinger or EU Member!

Upon exit, the EU has categorically stated that the UK will be treated as a 'Third Country' (it's words) - since when did the article 47 of the Lisbon Treaty apply to 'Third Countries'? Can you please provide a time, date, and text of that legislation?

(Are you sure you're a lawyer?).

Edited by Manximus Aururaneus
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Apple has warned that future investment by multinationals in Europe could be hit after it was ordered to pay a record-breaking €13bn (£11bn) in back taxes to Ireland.

The world’s largest company was presented with the huge bill after the European commission ruled that a sweetheart tax deal between Apple and the Irish tax authorities amounted to illegal state aid.

The commission said the deal allowed Apple to pay a maximum tax rate of just 1%. In 2014, the tech firm paid tax at just 0.005%. The usual rate of corporation tax in Ireland is 12.5%.

“Member states cannot give tax benefits to selected companies – this is illegal under EU state aid rules,” said the European competition commissioner, Margrethe Vestager, whose investigation of Apple’s complex tax dealings has taken three years.

Vestager’s ruling prompted an angry response from Apple and from Ireland and is likely to spark a political row between the US and the EU. The US Treasury said the ruling threatened to damage “the important spirit of economic partnership between the US and the EU”.

In a letter to customers, Apple’s chief executive, Tim Cook, claimed the ruling could deal a blow to big companies investing in Europe: “Beyond the obvious targeting of Apple, the most profound and harmful effect of this ruling will be on investment and job creation in Europe. Using the commission’s theory, every company in Ireland and across Europe is suddenly at risk of being subjected to taxes under laws that never existed.”

Later.....

Apple has paid the Irish government €14.3bn (£12.7bn), money that the European Commission ruled the tech giant owed due to illegal tax breaks.

Ireland's Finance Ministry said the payment was a "significant milestone", although Dublin insists Apple was not given any special tax treatment.

In 2016 the Commission ruled the below 1% effective tax rate the firm paid in Ireland amounted to illegal state aid.

Apple has appealed against the decision.

Dublin also disputes the Commission's finding. Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe said the government "fundamentally disagree[d] with the Commission's analysis".

However, he said, "as committed members of the European Union, we have always confirmed that we would recover the alleged state aid."

The European Commission initiated a lawsuit against Ireland last year over its delay in recovering the money. The Commission said that the court action would now be withdrawn.

The process of recovering the funds began in May and has now amounted to €13.1bn in disputed taxes plus interest of €1.2bn, an amount roughly equivalent to Ireland's health budget for the year. The money will be held in an escrow fund while Apple's appeal takes place.

Apple is one of several American tech giants which located their European operations in Ireland, due to its relatively low tax rate. Facebook, Twitter and Google all have a significant presence in Dublin.

Ireland's finance ministry said it expects it to take several years for European courts to resolve the issue.

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Leave Peel Swingers Club out of this... it's an entirely independent, self-governing entity.

So I'm told :lol:

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Bloody hell, Manximus! The first law of Peel Swingers’ Club is: you do not talk about Peel Swingers’ Club. The second law of Peel Swingers’ Club is: you DO NOT talk about Peel Swingers’ Club! Third law of Peel Swingers’ Club: if someone yells “stop!”, goes limp, or taps out, the swing is over.

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2 hours ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

Whinge

You sound like a bit of a Member

Edited by TheTeapot

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2 hours ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

Only two entities disagree with you. Me, and the EU :rolleyes:

The Lisbon Treaty is an INTERNAL AGREEMENT OF THE EU - Is the USA, China, et al bound by the Lisbon Treaty??? What date did they sign it???

I sincerely hope that you do not charge for your legal opinions!

This is what the EU's own website says;

"The European Union has legal personality and as such its own legal order which is separate from international law. Furthermore, EU law has direct or indirect effect on the laws of its Member States and becomes part of the legal system of each Member State. The European Union is in itself a source of law. The legal order is usually divided into primary legislation (the Treaties and general legal principles), secondary legislation (based on the Treaties) and supplementary law."

One might as well say,

"The Peel Swingers Club has legal personality and as such its own legal order which is separate from international law. Furthermore, Peel Swingers Club law has direct or indirect effect on the laws of its Member Swingers and becomes part of the legal system of each Member who Swings. The Peel  Swingers Club is in itself a source of law. The legal order is usually divided into primary legislation (the Treaties and general legal principles), secondary legislation (based on the Treaties) and supplementary law."

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/6/sources-and-scope-of-european-union-law

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1081066/brexit-news-latest-brexit-divorce-bill-european-court-of-justice-ecj

Clue is in; 'Member State' - If you ain't a 'Member State' Then you don't have to play by the Golf Club rules, Swinger Club rules or EU rules cause you ain't a Golf Club member, Member Swinger or EU Member!

Upon exit, the EU has categorically stated that the UK will be treated as a 'Third Country' (it's words) - since when did the article 47 of the Lisbon Treaty apply to 'Third Countries'? Can you please provide a time, date, and text of that legislation?

(Are you sure you're a lawyer?).

In the immortal words of the late Eric Morecambe. "This boy is a fool!"

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