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So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

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6 hours ago, P.K. said:

What part of " blunderette" is it that you don't understand...?  :)

Converting the €'s went wrong I guess. Didn't expect them to be making such a strong showing compared to the £....

I have no idea what you are on about.

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15 hours ago, woolley said:

I have no idea what you are on about.

 

On 5/29/2019 at 7:47 PM, woolley said:

Christ you're hard work.

Amen to that.....

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On 5/30/2019 at 6:46 PM, Bobbie Bobster said:

What?  Conservative leader candidate talking sense on Brexit?  Can it be true?

 

He is one of the few prepared to say it how it is. Sadly I think he’s actually mad. Even before he admitted taking opium at a party when pushed on it I thought he has that gaunt frazzled look of the speed-freak about him. Even in that clip he looks a bit wired. It could be really interesting if he gets in. 

Edited by thesultanofsheight

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7 hours ago, thesultanofsheight said:

He is one of the few prepared to say it how it is. Sadly I think he’s actually mad. Even before he admitted taking opium at a party when pushed on it I thought he has that gaunt frazzled look of the speed-freak about him. Even in that clip he looks a bit wired. It could be really interesting if he gets in. 

WTO terms are for basket case countries. Basically failed states. Errrr hang on a minute.....

Be aware that EU member states, who provide 30% of the food consumed in the UK, plus any other entity who has a trade deal with the EU can only trade with the UK post brexit on lesser terms.

So essentially the easiest deals in history can only be struck with entities who fail to meet basic food standards.

How strange Farage, Gove and Johnson failed to mention this....

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19 minutes ago, P.K. said:

WTO terms are for basket case countries. Basically failed states. Errrr hang on a minute.....

Be aware that EU member states, who provide 30% of the food consumed in the UK, plus any other entity who has a trade deal with the EU can only trade with the UK post brexit on lesser terms.

So essentially the easiest deals in history can only be struck with entities who fail to meet basic food standards.

How strange Farage, Gove and Johnson failed to mention this....

Where it is in mutual interest a way will always be found. It is imperative that both sides continue to trade. Absolutely imperative - to both. So do you not think that EU producers will want to continue selling that 30% of food? If they do, and they definitely do, they are not going to want it to be rendered less competitive by tariffs. There is no way that food standards will decline either. You are just so defeatist, and you pay no heed to the more important aspects of the debate. It's all about the minutiae. They got you fooled, like they got half the population fooled.

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15 hours ago, thesultanofsheight said:

He is one of the few prepared to say it how it is. Sadly I think he’s actually mad. Even before he admitted taking opium at a party when pushed on it I thought he has that gaunt frazzled look of the speed-freak about him. Even in that clip he looks a bit wired. It could be really interesting if he gets in. 

He's probably a rank outsider but he's doing himself a lot of credit and talking a lot of sense. Always liked Rory Stewart but the movie quote 'It ain't your night kid' comes to mind. Maybe next time though.

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8 hours ago, woolley said:

Where it is in mutual interest a way will always be found. It is imperative that both sides continue to trade. Absolutely imperative - to both. So do you not think that EU producers will want to continue selling that 30% of food? If they do, and they definitely do, they are not going to want it to be rendered less competitive by tariffs. There is no way that food standards will decline either. You are just so defeatist realist, and you pay no heed to the more important aspects of the debate. It's all about the minutiae. They got you fooled, like they got half the population fooled.

Fixed!

Liam Fox was bitching about this very issue in the HoC having failed to make any progress with talks in Japan. That's the Japan who recently signed a trade deal with the EU. Why else do you think Fox's performance has been absolutely abysmal???!!!

Anyone who thinks the UK can strike better deals with trading nations minus the clout of the EU are the ones being fooled. It really IS that simple.

This made me smile:

"So do you not think that EU producers will want to continue selling that 30% of food? "

The classic totally delusional " They need us more than we need them" nonsense.

The "more important aspects of the debate" wouldn't happen to include the smoke and mirrors "sovereignty" by chance?

So Woolster, what part of the UK's sovereignty that's been "lost" is the one you most want to get back that makes it worth leaving the biggest trading block on the planet?

Just trying to get a sense of perspective here....

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We have probably seen the passionate Peter Shaw speech (some might say it was a rant) but this calmer discussion is worth a look:

Sovereignty

Much of the present concerns about sovereignty are mirrored here by Michael Foot but the question might now be "have his 1970s fears materialised"?  I'd say no.

Is the UK now more prosperous since membership since we were the "sick man of Europe"? I'd say yes

 

Whatever you might think after watching this, the idea that political integration snook in without anyone noticing whilst we thought it was just a common market trade agreement seems unsupportable.

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Not just seems unsupportable BB - it is unsupportable and the history since the original debates has proven it. Good post that puts it in its historical perspective and which explodes the myths pedalled by the ideologues and the little Englanders. Britain is no longer the basketcase of Europe and has largely been a beneficiary of the EU. We're the fifth largest world economy because we're part of the European trade alliance, not in spite of it. It always amuses me that Tim Martin, one of the big Brexit supporters, has run one of the most successful new businesses in Britain, within the EU community. He's also expanded his pub chain very successfully into Ireland. I wonder if Wetherspoons (Whom I'm a big fan of) would have been so successful outside the EU bloc ?

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10 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

Not just seems unsupportable BB - it is unsupportable and the history since the original debates has proven it. Good post that puts it in its historical perspective and which explodes the myths pedalled by the ideologues and the little Englanders. Britain is no longer the basketcase of Europe and has largely been a beneficiary of the EU. We're the fifth largest world economy because we're part of the European trade alliance, not in spite of it. It always amuses me that Tim Martin, one of the big Brexit supporters, has run one of the most successful new businesses in Britain, within the EU community. He's also expanded his pub chain very successfully into Ireland. I wonder if Wetherspoons (Whom I'm a big fan of) would have been so successful outside the EU bloc ?

Why would it not have been? There is this sickening attitude of "poor us, we are hopeless without the EU". It's all fabrication and it's no accident. It's an attitude nurtured by the centrists to emasculate the nation states. Anyone who demurs is immediately and lazily accused of being an insular little Englander. Sovereignty is not a thing of the 1970s. It is for all times and eventualities. The present political situation on the continent is transitory. It is not a settlement in perpetuity, thank goodness.

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47 minutes ago, woolley said:

Why would it not have been? There is this sickening attitude of "poor us, we are hopeless without the EU". It's all fabrication and it's no accident. It's an attitude nurtured by the centrists to emasculate the nation states. Anyone who demurs is immediately and lazily accused of being an insular little Englander. Sovereignty is not a thing of the 1970s. It is for all times and eventualities. The present political situation on the continent is transitory. It is not a settlement in perpetuity, thank goodness.

Didn't think you would have an answer....

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49 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Didn't think you would have an answer....

You believe that because not only do you not understand the question, you also have not the slightest conception of what the question is. It is pointless discussing any matter with somebody who only looks at 10% of the issues involved.

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Just now, woolley said:

You believe that because not only do you not understand the question, you also have not the slightest conception of what the question is. It is pointless discussing any matter with somebody who only looks at 10% of the issues involved.

I have very rationally and reasonably asked you what aspect of "sovereignty" is it that you think is worth turning your back on the best deal in the biggest trading block on the planet to claw back from the EU.

Every brexiteer I have asked this question has always answered with "All of it!" and when pressed foe examples has failed to add to their original answer. Make of that as you will.

I'm hoping you can do better.

I may have asked this before but unfortunately any answer you gave I can't remember. If so accept my apologies.

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15 minutes ago, P.K. said:

I have very rationally and reasonably asked you what aspect of "sovereignty" is it that you think is worth turning your back on the best deal in the biggest trading block on the planet to claw back from the EU.

Every brexiteer I have asked this question has always answered with "All of it!" and when pressed foe examples has failed to add to their original answer. Make of that as you will.

I'm hoping you can do better.

I may have asked this before but unfortunately any answer you gave I can't remember. If so accept my apologies.

You can't remember because your mind is closed to the subject. I've given chapter and verse in the past so if you are that interested go look. I'm not doing it all again because I'll just get the standard TLDR. Presumably you remember giving this cogent retort on several occasions?

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7 minutes ago, woolley said:

You can't remember because your mind is closed to the subject. I've given chapter and verse in the past so if you are that interested go look. I'm not doing it all again because I'll just get the standard TLDR. Presumably you remember giving this cogent retort on several occasions?

No I can't actually. But then I'm used to Exec Summaries from which I can pick the points I want to delve into. Life's too short etc....

I can understand folks being concerned about the nonsense blown out of all proportion by the UK right wing press, which is to say pretty much all of it, as to a UK future in the EU such as EU armies and so forth. All nonsense of course unless it's a NATO collaberation which brings it's organisation and equipment standardisation with it. You know, like being in a trading bloc :)

But the point is that ALL the EU directives have to be passed by the HoC.

Always have.

Always will.

Which makes the whole "sovereignty" bit of the brexit farrago something of a fabrication.

Of course, having self centred, untrustworthy, lying charlatans like Farage, Gove and Johnson "making" the "case" doesn't help.....

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