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So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

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I know fact checking your bullshit means you get to tick some list that makes you salt of the earth and me a member of some elite - but how are you so thick as to not know about mass immigration from Ireland in the mid-nineteenth century? Are you even from these islands?

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5 minutes ago, Freggyragh said:

It’s a bit late to bring it up, but I see Woolley was citing 1851 as an example of low immigration- typical English, no understanding of the history of these isles. Woolley, the general population in Ireland was subjected to genocidal famines in the decade 1841 -1851. Anything up to 500,000  Irish emigrated to the U.K. during the decade.

What has that got to do with the subject? 1851 was merely a convenient census date. The Irish are of the British Isles and the entire country of Ireland was then in the United Kingdom, so they certainly did not emigrate to the UK. I suggest you get the basic facts right before telling others that they have no understanding. Those that came to England were moving from one part of the British Isles to another, my paternal grandmother's family among them.

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5 minutes ago, Freggyragh said:

I know fact checking your bullshit means you get to tick some list that makes you salt of the earth and me a member of some elite - but how are you so thick as to not know about mass immigration from Ireland in the mid-nineteenth century? Are you even from these islands?

Same answer. Check your facts.

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1 hour ago, woolley said:

What has that got to do with the subject? 1851 was merely a convenient census date. The Irish are of the British Isles and the entire country of Ireland was then in the United Kingdom, so they certainly did not emigrate to the UK. I suggest you get the basic facts right before telling others that they have no understanding. Those that came to England were moving from one part of the British Isles to another, my paternal grandmother's family among them.

You were talking about ‘immigration to Britain’, not to the U.K. Have a look on a map from 1851 and you’ll see that Ireland wasn’t in Britain anymore then than it is now. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, woolley said:

Sigh. If we both have hold of each other's testicles it is in neither of our interests to squeeze.

Talking bollocks again. 10.6% of the U.K.’s GDP comes from goods and services sold to the rest of the EU. Only 3.7% of the rest of the EU’s economy comes from goods and services sold to the U.K. No one wants their testicles squeezed, but if that’s what brexit has ended up at then Britain’s balls will be getting almost 3 times as much pressure applied, so when the EU was just starting to wince with its nuts at 37psi, the U.K. would be at 106psi; singing castrato with its knackers crushed. 

Edited by Freggyragh

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5 hours ago, Freggyragh said:

You were talking about ‘immigration to Britain’, not to the U.K. Have a look on a map from 1851 and you’ll see that Ireland wasn’t in Britain anymore then than it is now. 

Define Britain. 

Don’t think there’s such a thing. There’s ‘Great Britain’ which is the biggest of the islands, comprising mainland England, Scotland and Wales.  You could probably refer to the island of Ireland as ‘Little Britain’, but I don’t think anyone does. There are the ‘British Isles’ which encompasses all of them including us here. UK is a variably defined political entity.

If you’re going to pull someone up on a point of pedantry you need to be precise yourself. 

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1 hour ago, wrighty said:

Define Britain. 

Don’t think there’s such a thing. There’s ‘Great Britain’ which is the biggest of the islands, comprising mainland England, Scotland and Wales.  You could probably refer to the island of Ireland as ‘Little Britain’, but I don’t think anyone does. There are the ‘British Isles’ which encompasses all of them including us here. UK is a variably defined political entity.

If you’re going to pull someone up on a point of pedantry you need to be precise yourself. 

Britain was originally Wales, Cornwall, Devon, then Brittany was added.

Great Britain ( Grand Bretagne) is originally South west England and Wales.

As opposed to Brittany ( Bretagne ). Little Britain.

Occupied by Britons ( Brythons), who spoke Brythonic. The migration, c3-c6 AD was from Cornwall/Devon and Wales to Brittany.

Both defined by the type of British they spoke (Brythonic Gaelic/Celtic. The language of the southern celts ).

If ever there was a little Britain it’s Brittany.

Referring to Ireland as little Britain is just a reflection of Victorian imperialist ideology, which is where our current artificial politico/cultural idea or social construct of Britishness comes from.

The northern celts, or gaels, spoke Goedlic across Ireland, Scotland, Mann and Cumbria.

The Norman’s added the term Grande or Great to Bretagne when the came over.

The current sub divisions of Brittany ( Armorica ) have many Cornish and Welsh derivations.

https://www.quora.com/Do-Brittany-and-Great-Britain-share-common-roots-Why-is-the-name-so-similar

 

 

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When I see people throwing about terms like "liberal elite" and "virtue signalling" I seem to get this uber-smug wannabe Jordan Peterson vibe from some posters.

They truly believe that they are the only ones to see clearly, everyone else is a blind sheep following the globalist liberal agenda and have their thoughts twisted by the SJW feminazi plan to subvert the white manosphere.

But then I remember they are just a bunch of old dinosaur right wing politico wannabes venting hot air on a forum.

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9 hours ago, woolley said:

Now that IS funny. Physician heal thyself comes to mind. For one who hands out insults on here like confetti at a wedding, you really should not be wearing such a thin skin.

Ah yes. To add to the earlier list:

Persecution complex: Check.

Totally devoid of any sense of irony: Check.

Total lack of self-awareness of the insults they hand out to others whilst crying foul at the mildest of rebukes: Check.

A few gems from the PK archive just on this page for example:

inferiority complex

you can invent all sorts of nonsense  

sneering at the proles etc etc. 

self-serving , lying, typical brexiteer 

the minds of the unstable and couldn't be more detached from reality

brexit is a really really stupid idea.  

some such guff.

all sorts of complete and utter nonsense.

To be honest I've become so inured to the OPINIONS that others have about me that it frankly no longer registers. I start to read it, realise it's the same old same old complete and utter nonsense and just move on.

But there are some VERY sad characters about. Of that there is no doubt at all.

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9 hours ago, woolley said:

Sigh. If we both have hold of each other's testicles it is in neither of our interests to squeeze.

Did you see the Johnson interview?

On the no deal exit he immediately slipped into Brexit Bonus Bollox mode declaring how there would be no tariffs on imports etc etc.

I'm starting to wonder if the level of denial on here pervades the HoC as well or if it's just politics.

Take Liam Fox for example. He MUST know that a trade deal with the EU has a "most favoured nation" clause which means if you sign up to trade with the EU then any deals you make subsequently with other entities must be less than the EU trade deal.

Yet Fox swans off to Japan and comes back bitching to the HoC that they wouldn't play ball. 

The only conclusion one can draw from that performance is that Fox is just playing to the crowd to keep the brexit deception going....

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, woolley said:

Those controlling the liberal elite agenda have absolutely no intention of doing what you say, though. Where was the liberal elite challenge to the wealthy or to powerful governments as globalisation laid waste to so many communities? They have been too cosy for too long, living high on the hog in their ivory towers and they thought that all was wonderful. They just don't understand that not everybody agreed things were so great. That's why they are shocked to the core now that so many "normal people" have bitten back to disrupt their idyll. Those "normal people" are not thick. They have simply had enough of being told what's good for them by people who have had easy lives and no clue about life at the sharp end.

Who are the controlling liberal elite though?

Lets take a closer look at the blog you posted a link to earlier...

"It means they have been injected with the views and assumptions of their teachers." - Was the writer of the blog not also educated by teachers?  What makes the education that the like of Farage, Gove, Johnson et al different? 

"They have been taught that capitalism is inherently bad."  - I was taught about economics at school (supply & demand etc) and even at University I learnt about the way the economy works without any of my lecturers or teachers saying that it was a good or bad system.  I doubt anyone else was taught this either.

"Meanwhile the pursuit of equality is good." - So equality is a bad thing?  The writer goes on to argue that the last 100 years have taught is the opposite is the case.  I personally cannot understand that view point.  Much of the equality we have today was fought for by people who had no rights.  A few examples, prior to the Great Reform Act only men over the age of 21 were allowed to vote and then only if they owned property over a certain value (voting was for the rich!).  It was in 1918 (inside 100 years of that blog being written by the way) that all property requirements were removed for men over 21 and women over 30 were allowed to vote.   It was 1928 when women were given voting equality and 1969 when it was reduced to 18 years old.  I wonder why the wealthy find the last 100 years so disturbing and dislike the idea of equality of opportunity...

If you want other examples consider Alan Turing - a national hero for his work at Bletchley Park - was brought to trial in 1952 because he was gay!   It was not until 2009 that the UK Governmental issued an apology and pardon (a Labour Government by the way).

"They think that because they studied English literature at Durham they understand the world better than a plumber in Croydon.Nigel Farage was educated at Dulwich College (a private fee paying school),  Boris Johnson was educated at Eton College and then at Oxford, Donald Trump educated at the New York Military Academy before transferring to Fordham University (a private research university) and then at the University of Pennsylvannia (an Ivy League University).  So how do any of these people understand the world better than a plumber in Croydon?

"They have only a token belief in democracy. They expect and intend to prevail."  - As I cannot identify who "they" are I can only give a personal view on this statement.  I have tried to find out more about James Bartholomew (surprising not much about his background online), however, I cannot help but feel that he belongs to the same group as Farage, Johnson et al.  Privately educated, middle to upper class background and in a well paying job.  I would suggest that it is in fact this group who are the elite and that the actions we have seen recently are the elite trying to cement in place a system by which they remain well off and in control of the capital whilst everyone else is promised "sunlit uplands" if only they would believe hard enough or work harder to generate more products, services etc for their employers to sell and make more profits of which the employees will see very little.

ETA:  Will the winner of the Tory leadership contest call a general election to ensure that they, and their promises/manifesto have a mandate from the general public?  If not surely they only have a token belief in democracy?

I think the "liberal elite" is nothing but a diversion from the truth.  I do not believe that those who voted for brexit are stupid I think that it is they who have been conditioned over years and years by the media to accept what they are told by the mainstream newspapers.  At the same time we have seen investigative journalism reduced to virtually nothing with most of the media concentrating on "fluff" and fads.  Our media now tries to present everything with "balance" even when the other side is clearly full of BS (think Good Morning Britain entertaining a group of Flat Earthers to say that Tim Peake had never gone to space).

Politicians, of every political view, are now allowed to appear on TV and the media without being challenged by the facts.  How many times has Trump just rolled out the statement "fake news" when he wants to discredit an opposing view when it is demonstrably true (think of the crowds at his inauguration).  

I could go through that blog line by line and pull it apart with references to evidence and facts.

If you have taken the time to read this thank you, however, for all that it will make a difference you probably should not have bothered....

Edited by manxman1980
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1 hour ago, manxman1980 said:

Prior to the Great Reform Act only men over the age of 21 were allowed to vote and then only if they owned property over a certain value (voting was for the rich!).  It was in 1918 (inside 100 years of that blog being written by the way) that all property requirements were removed for men over 21 and women over 30 were allowed to vote.   It was 1928 when women were given voting equality and 1969 when it was reduced to 18 years old. 

If you have taken the time to read this thank you, however, for all that it will make a difference you probably should not have bothered....

Women can vote!!!

Sheeeeesh. When did this happen???

A very interesting read but you are completely wide of the mark as it happens.

Well, according to this poster anyway:

 

17 hours ago, quilp said:

It's not about who or what is the 'Liberal Elite', the term describes a mindset. One that is impervious to contradictory opinion. That armour (borrowed-plumage) of self-regard and righteousness is Chobham-esque, emboldened by a barbed-wire of one-eyed, grandiose confirmation-bias.

Make of all that flowery judgmental language as you will....

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12 hours ago, Freggyragh said:

You were talking about ‘immigration to Britain’, not to the U.K. Have a look on a map from 1851 and you’ll see that Ireland wasn’t in Britain anymore then than it is now. 

No. Wrong again. The discussion was about the homogeneity of the population of the British Isles down the centuries which had been challenged. The census of 1851 gives the lie to this fallacy showing that the foreign born population at that time was a mere 0.6%. This was the context of "Britain", which was patently obvious from the thread. As has been said, a point of pedantry not even relevant to the subject matter. Perhaps I should have repeated "British Isles" on every line for the hard of thinking. I am descended from those very Irish who, in my case, married into Yorkshire stock who then married Scottish. This had been the norm for centuries albeit on a smaller scale. It is the essence of the British identity notwithstanding the vagaries of politics.

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12 hours ago, Freggyragh said:

Talking bollocks again. 10.6% of the U.K.’s GDP comes from goods and services sold to the rest of the EU. Only 3.7% of the rest of the EU’s economy comes from goods and services sold to the U.K. No one wants their testicles squeezed, but if that’s what brexit has ended up at then Britain’s balls will be getting almost 3 times as much pressure applied, so when the EU was just starting to wince with its nuts at 37psi, the U.K. would be at 106psi; singing castrato with its knackers crushed. 

No, not at all. Your contention, whilst vividly artistic, is also simplistic, untested and one dimensional, as usual. What you say is all very well in theory. In practice it is a little like nuclear mutual assured destruction. It doesn't matter if power A has 10 nuclear warheads aimed at power B's capital provided power B has a couple aimed at power A's capital. You see the damage is still severe and not evenly distributed.

A lot of immensely powerful people in the EU make a very nice packet out of the £340 billion pounds of imports the UK buys from them. They do not want that to be disrupted so they would always send Brussels back to the table. The problem that we have, of course, is that the craven idiots in Parliament are undermining their own side by constantly wittering that they will not countenance no deal. We all know that they are EU adherents anyway who have been manoeuvreing in the direction of a second referendum for 3 years.

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