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Taxpayers to dig for £20M for Liverpool Dock


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1 hour ago, Holte End said:

If they just built a primark at the Heysham port, the uproar about No Liverpool  Crossing would stop.

We could have built one (or more) at Heysham and rented them out to franchises at the cost we're paying 😂

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5 hours ago, John Wright said:

Except a lot of the cost to date is land acquisition, site investigation, planning, design,  QS, tender. There’s a fair amount of work done preparing the site. We don’t get any of that back.

There'll be sub contractors. With main contractor mark up. And I’m assuming the actual building will be a steel frame, maybe outside the main contract.

ive no idea what’s been spent to date. 

Then there’s been some infill inside the half tide dock. Peel may require that removing. As I say, it needs costing.

Sell the land and the subbies will be taken care of via the Main contractor determination of contract, Simples !           

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44 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said:

Sell the land and the subbies will be taken care of via the Main contractor determination of contract, Simples !           

Mmmm. Who would buy. User clause. Ferry dock, landing stage, terminal building and car marshalling area.

Demand? Much?

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11 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Mmmm. Who would buy. User clause. Ferry dock, landing stage, terminal building and car marshalling area.

Demand? Much?

Theres about to be a huge football ground on the next dock

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38 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Theres about to be a huge football ground on the next dock

And car parking is already provided for in the plans for that. Liverpool City Council isn’t going to put in the roadway for a car park at the Half Tide Dock

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2 hours ago, Boris Johnson said:

Sell the land and the subbies will be taken care of via the Main contractor determination of contract, Simples !           

Do we even own the land to sell it though?  I've a vague recollection it's a 99-year lease.

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5 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Do we even own the land to sell it though?  I've a vague recollection it's a 99-year lease.

120 year long leasehold. Saleable if there’s an interest.

Its quite a hike to Bramley-Moore Docks, and there are some bits of water and unbridged lock gate entrances between Half tide dock and the new Everton.

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13 minutes ago, John Wright said:

120 year long leasehold. Saleable if there’s an interest.

Its quite a hike to Bramley-Moore Docks, and there are some bits of water and unbridged lock gate entrances between Half tide dock and the new Everton.

Thanks.  Surely its saleability would depend on the terms of the lease though?  There could be all sorts of vetos or permissions or payments required.  Still I'm sure the crack legal team at the AG's Office will have sorted that out.

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1 minute ago, Roger Mexico said:

Thanks.  Surely its saleability would depend on the terms of the lease though?  There could be all sorts of vetos or permissions or payments required.  Still I'm sure the crack legal team at the AG's Office will have sorted that out.

I mentioned user clauses earlier.

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No idea of the geography but could there be some connivance of Peel and LCC on the use of this land?

Are the SP co being priced out of it to allow a shopping centre/ entertainment centre that is seen as a more useful use of the land?

Demolishing Toxteth high street could fill in a a wet dock?

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Just now, Kopek said:

No idea of the geography but could there be some connivance of Peel and LCC on the use of this land?

Are the SP co being priced out of it to allow a shopping centre/ entertainment centre that is seen as a more useful use of the land?

Demolishing Toxteth high street could fill in a a wet dock?

Great conspiracy theory. BUT

1. we’ve got a lease of the land. Not much ongoing pressure there from Peel or LCC.

2. it’s the development/building costs that have spiralled. That’s not Peel or LCC either

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Just now, Kopek said:

There will always be 'get out' clauses. Won't there???

Not in long leaseholds.  You’ve bought for a time period. Paid up front. Not an annual market rent.

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47 minutes ago, John Wright said:

And car parking is already provided for in the plans for that. Liverpool City Council isn’t going to put in the roadway for a car park at the Half Tide Dock

Im sure there is. My point was that because of it there might be a little bit more interest in the land than there was, if that was something someone decided to look at. 

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....but the lease the SP co have puts them in the drivers seat, although dual control, that they can demand an easy way out of the current contract, if the land is more valuable for other uses then that could be the way out of the contract for the IOM without oo much loss or even a break even situation?

The other parties will pay for the return of the land to their control?

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