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Taxpayers to dig for £20M for Liverpool Dock


Non-Believer
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30 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Since we own the site I think we should tell them to pack up and go home. Then erect this on the site, surrounded by as much swill as we can muster from Litts and dump more daily until Liverpool stinks like a rotting Blue Whale!

L.O.V.E. - a statue by controversial Italian artist Maurizio Cattelan - in front of the stock exchange in Milan

I'm afraid that is already on order as a tribute to the taxpayers funding the scheme !

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29 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Since we own the site I think we should tell them to pack up and go home. Then erect this on the site, surrounded by as much swill as we can muster from Litts and dump more daily until Liverpool stinks like a rotting Blue Whale!

L.O.V.E. - a statue by controversial Italian artist Maurizio Cattelan - in front of the stock exchange in Milan

The risk is I suppose that if we just mothball the site or even better, make it look like Douglas Prom, then as Peel Ports own Heysham port they could just bar us from that and leave us with only Holyhead as an option.

We should never have started this unless it was to replace Heysham as our port for freight as well.

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5 minutes ago, asitis said:

I'm afraid that is already on order as a tribute to the taxpayers funding the scheme !

They ordered two. The other is going on the Prom.

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1 hour ago, offshoremanxman said:

Listening to Tim Crookall on the radio it suggests that part of the problem is that they were sold a pup of a site which now needs massive reinforcement and protection to make it operational. The first record I could find was Phil Gawne quoting a £15M figure about 6 years ago. So I think it’s likely we’ve turned a £15M project into a £100M project by the time we’ve finished. We could have probably bought the whole port of Heysham off Mersey Docks (who bought Heysham for £25M in 2001) for half of that. 

Tim Crookall is talking through his arse, most likely fed from a cassette inserted into his head by persons within the DOI.

During election time, a now re-elected MHK (and I've posted this before) told me in no uncertain terms that Peel Holdings advised of known and likely problems with the site during the negotiations stage. It was also the reason that they withdrew from their original offer to construct the Dock "at no cost to the Manx taxpayer" which was the original starting point of this "project".

The cost to IoM taxpayers then rose to £3M and then by varying further increments, to the latest revelation.

If what said MHK told me is true (and I believe him personally), then persons within IoMG took it upon themselves to disregard this advice and proceed down the road we find ourselves now mired in. Who and why are the questions that need answering. 

Edited by Non-Believer
typo
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5 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Tim Crookall is talking through his arse, most likely fed from a cassette inserted into his head by persons within the DOI.

During election time, a now elected MHK (and I've posted this before) told me in no uncertain terms that Peel Holdings advised of known and likely problems with the site during the negotiations stage. It was also the reason that they withdrew from their original offer to construct the Dock "at no cost to the Manx taxpayer" which was the original starting point of this "project".

The cost to IoM taxpayers then rose to £3M and then by varying further increments, to the latest revelation.

If what said MHK told me is true (and I believe him personally), then persons within IoMG took it upon themselves to disregard this advice and proceed down the road we find ourselves now mired in. Who and why are the questions that need answering. 

It’s a shame that those who ignored possible advice, or took their own council, can’t be surcharged. Nobody is ever held accountable, or does the honourable thing (unless they keep their pension). 

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It's worth going back and reading this thread from the start. All the phases that this has gone through including links to support are there. Including last April's DOI denial that the project had reached £53M, elicited by Claire Barber, and the claims that it was a "typo" from £38M.

Also certain posters defending the expense from the start and denying the emerging facts.....

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1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

Tim Crookall is talking through his arse, most likely fed from a cassette inserted into his head by persons within the DOI.

During election time, a now elected MHK (and I've posted this before) told me in no uncertain terms that Peel Holdings advised of known and likely problems with the site during the negotiations stage. It was also the reason that they withdrew from their original offer to construct the Dock "at no cost to the Manx taxpayer" which was the original starting point of this "project".

The cost to IoM taxpayers then rose to £3M and then by varying further increments, to the latest revelation.

If what said MHK told me is true (and I believe him personally), then persons within IoMG took it upon themselves to disregard this advice and proceed down the road we find ourselves now mired in. Who and why are the questions that need answering. 

I don't think we need to guess who is responsible for this 'oversight' and to realise that they will never be publicly outed. They will be by now comfortably planning the rest of their life, funded by our good selves!

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This is just another in a long line of mismanaged capital projects which has brought so called ‘Manx Care’ to it’s knees through lack of funding. All those poor souls suffering in silence or forced to scrape enough money together to get years waited for surgery done privately in order to regain a pain free existence. 
 

You can change the name of a failing Health Service, but you can’t kid us with ‘smoke and mirror awards for excellence’. 
 

Shame on all of our untrained inadequate so called politicians. But they don’t know what that is and never show it  - “it wasn’t on my watch” is the cry and “if I can just get that second term in, it won’t matter to me or my family, because I’ll have a very healthy bulletproof pension in the time most plebs have taken to get a liveable wage after completing an apprenticeship/degree and built up a good reputation through hard work”. “What a bunch of suckers voters are - a ten year career for me, switching my ‘responsibilities’ around a few times and out”. Ring any bells??
 

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29 minutes ago, wingnut said:

This is just another in a long line of mismanaged capital projects which has brought so called ‘Manx Care’ to it’s knees through lack of funding. All those poor souls suffering in silence or forced to scrape enough money together to get years waited for surgery done privately in order to regain a pain free existence. 
 

You can change the name of a failing Health Service, but you can’t kid us with ‘smoke and mirror awards for excellence’. 
 

Shame on all of our untrained inadequate so called politicians. But they don’t know what that is and never show it  - “it wasn’t on my watch” is the cry and “if I can just get that second term in, it won’t matter to me or my family, because I’ll have a very healthy bulletproof pension in the time most plebs have taken to get a liveable wage after completing an apprenticeship/degree and built up a good reputation through hard work”. “What a bunch of suckers voters are - a ten year career for me, switching my ‘responsibilities’ around a few times and out”. Ring any bells??
 

Understandable but I feel that the real competence issues are within the Civil Service, and particularly at senior level. The politicians are basically beaten down by the CS in one way or another, there is a huge challenge to get anything done.

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You are right in one sense Max Power, but the reason I chose the words “untrained” and “inadequate” was because they ought to be ‘organ grinders’ keeping ‘the monkeys in check’. It’s what they are well paid (with gold plated pensions) to do but unfortunately they aren’t trained to deal with entrenched ‘Yes Minister’ senior civil ‘servants’. 
 

How many of our MHK’s past or present have degrees in politics? 

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1 hour ago, Max Power said:

Understandable but I feel that the real competence issues are within the Civil Service, and particularly at senior level. The politicians are basically beaten down by the CS in one way or another, there is a huge challenge to get anything done.

There are some good people at senior positions but the problem stems from a reliance on simple accounting qualifications, currently and general admin grade Officers making their way up the ranks into positions where they lack the specialist skills or experience to do the top jobs effectively. The Civil Service has always had a tendency to distrust and under-value private sector experience and finds it difficult to attract good candidates from it, as a result. The job of a CEO is not administrative; it requires leadership and specialist skills in the area of work the Department is engaged in. General CS experience just won’t cut it. Neither will being an acceptable member of the Club, regardless of experience or ability, as we saw at DoI. As long as the CS adopts the same approach to promotion and recruitment as they do now, these kind of poor performance issues will continue.  

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1 minute ago, wingnut said:

You are right in one sense Max Power, but the reason I chose the words “untrained” and “inadequate” was because they ought to be ‘organ grinders’ keeping ‘the monkeys in check’. It’s what they are well paid (with gold plated pensions) to do but unfortunately they aren’t trained to deal with entrenched ‘Yes Minister’ senior civil ‘servants’. 
 

How many of our MHK’s past or present have degrees in politics? 

Every pronouncement from Manx Care is classic political speak, excuse mongering as usual. No doubt the DoI will get the same whitewashing, probably under the guise of greening. So footpaths can't be maintained because of the wild flowers, beetles or birds. Ambigious road markings or none at all will be about shared spaces and traffic calming. 

It's never about action and progress but the appearance of it. Why put a two or three paragraph notice in thr courier when you can put a four page wrap on the front of it. One thing for sure they are certainly keeping the leaflet printers and graphic design wallahs in work.

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