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Taxpayers to dig for £20M for Liverpool Dock


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Buying the Steam Packet was the best thing the last government did it is our lifeline and was invaluable during the pandemic.    Securing the berth at Liverpool was the way forward I reckon with a 237 year lease it has given us a permanent investment.    The price has been very high but it is possible the costing was not true in the beginning it is a mammoth  task and there have been obstacles aplenty but now hopefully will progress to a satisfactory conclusion.   Perhaps the government could stop wasting money on stupid Love your Isle of Man schemes.   It was mentioned this afternoon in Tynwald that the film industry cost the Tax payers a cool 26 million quid what a waste.   At least we will reap the benefit of the landing stage.

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27 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

Buying the Steam Packet was the best thing the last government did it is our lifeline and was invaluable during the pandemic.    Securing the berth at Liverpool was the way forward I reckon with a 237 year lease it has given us a permanent investment.    The price has been very high but it is possible the costing was not true in the beginning it is a mammoth  task and there have been obstacles aplenty but now hopefully will progress to a satisfactory conclusion.   Perhaps the government could stop wasting money on stupid Love your Isle of Man schemes.   It was mentioned this afternoon in Tynwald that the film industry cost the Tax payers a cool 26 million quid what a waste.   At least we will reap the benefit of the landing stage.

I'm sure it's been covered in other threads but, hypothetically, if SP had not been bought by the Govt and retained within its former ownership structure, what would have happened if SP had defaulted on its obligations under the User Agreement? Could we have picked up a ferry company even cheaper?

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Unfortunately there are only two options available and both are unpleasant. It is a question of which is the least unpleasant. Ideally you would not want to have to choose either but unfortunately that is not an option.

I was unimpressed with contribution of Wannerburgh which just seemed to be grandstanding. Yes heads should roll if and when we know where responsibility for the f**k up lies but simply calling for the heads of all senior bods in the DOI just seemed a cheap shot. The bottom line is probably that either the designing, costing etc was wrong, or contracts were badly drafted. Possibly both. I would expect that little of the former was in the hands of the DOI so the area for review will be with regard to the selection of the particular consultants.   

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38 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

Buying the Steam Packet was the best thing the last government did it is our lifeline and was invaluable during the pandemic.    Securing the berth at Liverpool was the way forward I reckon with a 237 year lease it has given us a permanent investment.    The price has been very high but it is possible the costing was not true in the beginning it is a mammoth  task and there have been obstacles aplenty but now hopefully will progress to a satisfactory conclusion.   Perhaps the government could stop wasting money on stupid Love your Isle of Man schemes.   It was mentioned this afternoon in Tynwald that the film industry cost the Tax payers a cool 26 million quid what a waste.   At least we will reap the benefit of the landing stage.

Wow - we’ve paid over the odds to buy a loss making ferry company, had our pants pulled down to the tune of £70 million for a parking space in Liverpool, the not investigated film industry lost silly money whilst being robbed blind by incestuous private film contracts (now dead) that Govt supported - but a fucking scheme to get people to spend locally is the problem -ARRRRFFFFFFFF

I love it when a CS outs themselves 

Edited by Mr Helmut Fromage
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27 minutes ago, Mr Helmut Fromage said:

Wow - we’ve paid over the odds to buy a loss making ferry company, had our pants pulled down to the tune of £70 million for a parking space in Liverpool, the not investigated film industry lost silly money whilst being robbed blind by incestuous private film contracts (now dead) that Govt supported - but a fucking scheme to get people to spend locally is the problem -ARRRRFFFFFFFF

I love it when a CS outs themselves 

At least when the landing stage in Liverpool is finished I’ll be able to nip over and spend several hundred pounds per visit in their local economy.

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11 hours ago, Utah 01 said:

..............yet you argue vehemently against the same for air routes; perhaps not your preferred mode of travel these days?

Three reasons. 
 

Huge difference between our air and sea links, in terms of 

1. what each carries,

2. Monopoly ( for good reason ) and plenty of competition/operators

3. the experience of other small jurisdictions operating vanity “national” airlines.

The steam packet was in a position created by our own ham fisted attempt at monopoly regulation. The UA. It wasn’t fit for purpose as far as monetising it own value and lack of ownership control were concerned. The regulation of sailings and fares worked quite well.

I don’t favour monopolies or excessive regulation, and I think open skies will work as things return to the post covid normal. But sometimes monopolies are the only thing your market size will support. Then regulation of service level and price ( as a minimum ) for the privilege is a necessity.

live more flights booked in the next 6 months than ferry crossings. Just. And more of either than since March 2020.

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12 hours ago, Mr Helmut Fromage said:

Wow - we’ve paid over the odds to buy a loss making ferry company, had our pants pulled down to the tune of £70 million for a parking space in Liverpool, the not investigated film industry lost silly money whilst being robbed blind by incestuous private film contracts (now dead) that Govt supported - but a fucking scheme to get people to spend locally is the problem -ARRRRFFFFFFFF

I love it when a CS outs themselves 

Apart from cash flow during covid, when lots of fares were refunded, without question, when, in the last 30 years, has it been loss making?

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12 hours ago, Lost Login said:

I was unimpressed with contribution of Wannerburgh which just seemed to be grandstanding. Yes heads should roll if and when we know where responsibility for the f**k up lies but simply calling for the heads of all senior bods in the DOI just seemed a cheap shot. 

But this isn't the only massive fuck up in their portfolio, is it. The senior heads are ultimately responsible for all of them and yes, they should roll.

Roll right out the door, do not collect massive goodbye payments and huge pensions on the way out, just GO. If our politicians had any guts, these heads would have rolled a long time ago and we might not be in this mess now.

Edited by Zarley
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45 minutes ago, Zarley said:

But this isn't the only massive fuck up in their portfolio, is it. The senior heads are ultimately responsible for all of them and yes, they should roll.

Roll right out the door, do not collect massive goodbye payments and huge pensions on the way out, just GO. If our politicians had any guts, these heads would have rolled a long time ago and we might not be in this mess now.

I agree.

However what I would like to happen by the ‘Star Chamber’ investigation is the previous administration role examined, in particular the roles of the Treasury Minister, the DOI Ministers (Harmer and Baker) and other MHKs (which may include Rob Callister). It will be interesting to see the decision making as to where the money was and is spent. It will be interesting to see Alf Cannan role in this debacle - after all he likes to portray himself as someone who likes value for the taxpayer. Alf Cannan proposed the Major Projects Unit within Treasury to manage Capital Infrastructure Schemes, so he knew of Government incompetence and did little until it was too late.

Edited by 2112
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19 hours ago, hissingsid said:

Well the great debate is going ahead and will probably continue for some time.   It could cost over 40 million to abandon the

 

 

project which would be disastrous in my view because we would be without anywhere to sail the fast craft to.   I am totally for the project to go ahead because I believe Liverpool is the gateway to the UK from our point of view and with a 234 year lease we would be assuring a berth for our boats for the future .   There has been an amendment proposed by the public accounts committee who want to dissect every penny spent so far with a fine tooth comb which sounds commendable but will achieve nothing except tie up god knows how many civil servants on top wages so more expense.    The estimate for the project seems to have been well out considering they were dealing with sea walls and heaven knows what, add on brexit and Covid and it has just ran away altogether.   Daphne is on next after the lunch break so that could be interesting or not.    They will probably vote it through as really they have no option at this state of play but it will be a long and wearying session.

There is so much nonsense in this paragraph it is difficult to know where to start. And then, to polish the turd even further we get the “due to Brexit” comment. That really had me spluttering in my coffee this morning. Keep it up, I love a bit of comedy, first thing. 

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MHK's, Senior C/S and their 'one of us' mentality means that expenses paid jollies for shopping and entertainment oh and the occasional vital fact finding meeting are much more important than spending the same £100 million on infrastructure on our own island, the sooner they come out and say that the better.

This horseshit about taking a loss is a steaming pile of crap to try and deflect that someone has signed an open ended contract with a bunch of conmen and shysters who saw them coming at the snake oil convention.

You couldn't make it up, i await the next round of 'we need another £30 million because the piles are wrong and the new ones come from Turkey, oh and it won't be ready until 2026'.

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1 hour ago, Zarley said:

But this isn't the only massive fuck up in their portfolio, is it. The senior heads are ultimately responsible for all of them and yes, they should roll.

Roll right out the door, do not collect massive goodbye payments and huge pensions on the way out, just GO. If our politicians had any guts, these heads would have rolled a long time ago and we might not be in this mess now.

Strictly speaking they are accountable, not responsible.

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