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Operation Market Garden

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17 hours ago, quilp said:

Monty's petulant vanity also played a part. He was so insistent that his plan should be followed, even going so far as to tear an alternative plan to shreds in front of Ike. Ike said something like, 'you can't do that Bernard, I'm your boss'.

Complete underestimation of German available forces, firepower and conditions of the terrain led to this debacle and had it happened later the outcome actually could've been worse because of Allied supply problems: support artillery arriving late, lack of light, personal anti-tank weapons. Who knew there'd be 2 SS Panzer divisions on 'rest and refit', one of them fully operational, for instance? Or that a ferry was available that could provide a way across the Rhine? Allied intelligence failure, big-time. 

 

So, whether the time was right or not? It was a costly gamble and destined to be a strategic failure down to poor planning and intelligence. Those first few months were testing for the Allied powers. 

Where'd you get the Ike quote from? Not seen that before. Can absolutely believe it tho' - the 'Little Limey Fart' definately had OCD & loved a 'tidy battlefront'

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Actually there is a view that intelligence did know & this was put aside because of the planning in place. In 'A Bridge Too Far' the issue is portrayed as an intelligence man being put on sick leave

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18 hours ago, quilp said:

Allied intelligence failure, big-time. 

 

I actually read the Book that the Movie was made from and what the Movie does not go into is the fact that the Dutch Resistance had been Infiltrated early by the Germans and that caused some Agents to get Caught & Shot.

So in the Book, it states that the Dutch Resistance Intelligence Information was considered Unreliable since it could have been False Intelligence planted by the Germans to confuse the Allies.

So when the Dutch were trying to warn the Allies about the Panzer Divisions being put in Arnhem, the Reports were Discounted.

 

3X3

 

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On 08/05/2017 at 10:35 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

Hindsight...such a wonderful thing.

Sure.

Everyone tested always scores 20/20.

Crossing the Rhine was always going to be costly. So another way was always going to be a good option even if it meant losing a whole Division. Montgomery was by nature a cautious commander but the maths were simply against abandoning the plan. Wrong assumptions were made concerning things like the polder, re-supply and so forth. Mind you it also didn't help dropping light assault troops on top of armour.

Shit happens....

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On 5/9/2017 at 4:49 PM, P.K. said:

Mind you it also didn't help dropping light assault troops on top of armour.

Shit happens....

That is why I think they should have held off dropping the British Paratroopers into Arnhem until it looked as though the 2nd Link Up in NIjimegen looked Secure.

 

3X3

 

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