Jump to content
Manx Forums, Live Chat, Blogs & Classifieds for the Isle of Man
Heffalump

Living hope church again - teaching the kids

Recommended Posts

Just now, llap said:

Deport all white South Africans?

Weak willed people who believe is sky fairies of all varieties come in all nationalities...

Just ban organised religion.  You want to worship the dead squirrel at the end of your garden?  That is fine, as long as you do it in your own home and make no attempt to convert/recruit.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But he's such a cute squirrel and you'll burn in hell if you don't worship him. Wouldn't I be selfish to not warn people?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, llap said:

But he's such a cute squirrel and you'll burn in hell if you don't worship him. Wouldn't I be selfish to not warn people?

Religion is like a dick.  Carry it with you and do what you want with it in private.

Get it out in public and be prepared to have it cut off.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Mr Helmut Fromage said:

Let's be honest it's a deluded religious franchise led by a deluded snake oil salesman - that strangely seems to suck in seemingly intelligent people. the Itex lady (double barrelled name former Telecom big cheese) she's in on it, very very very very very fat man not compliant with the gluttony part of his commandments Director of Barclays ( surname rhymes with Belsen.... ) who strangely lent his Louis group prayer pals a loadof cash - he's involved there are stooges all over the business community.

If you happen upon one of the deluded flock they rarely ever wish to admit they are actually associated with the organisation and don't readily admit they are a part of the cult, which indicates they know it's a ruse but are too far gone or embarrassed to admit their associations.

I see Helmut has been quoted on IOM News and Politics. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Biggest shock is the amount paid to "Directors" the Douglas Peel and Ramsey Pastors seems to be picking up as much as a quarter share of £222k each per year, FFS its hardly a full time job.  No wonder they're always happy.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting comments again. I love reference to me being part of this "church" but can assure you Llap it couldn't be further from the truth. 

My last post simply wants to try to nail down why people dislike this church so much and if there is anything illegal, then let's not talk round the subject but instead sort out some sort of presentable case as to suspicions in regards to accounts.

My assertion of no one liking a successful church was a tongue in cheek reference to what the leadership are probably telling their "saints" as we speak.

But, I have noticed a reference to living hope on another site being part of "churches alive in Mann". Apparently an allegiance of all denominations on the island. So although we don't get any response from living hope on these things, and probably never will, it would also be an assumption therefore that "churches alive in Mann" also advocate their practices as being ok.

The most astonishing thing I find in all of this is the continued silence not only by the church themselves but in particular mr Stanfield. A guy who is not afraid to say his bit in the place of entrapment for many. You only have to look at their Facebook page when the preacher for douglas pm last week was quoted as:

"We have the great Jonathan Stanfield preaching this Sunday as he shares with us what’s on his heart! Come ready to hear a powerful word!"

Sounds a bit like the wizard of oz!

I am now struggling to hear any "powerful words" of reassurance from him now to the wider non living hope community???

Oh and another thing.

Apart from paying the pastors and other family relations in the church, what does this "charity" actually raise money for???

Is it just glossy, glitzy events in the villa marina? Or do they do anything on the island to support the needy. I will no doubt hear of one project were they spent £76.80 on somebody's back garden clear up, or the time they fixed somebody's fence with nails blagged from b and q for nowt.......

Every event that I see now is run exclusively for members of the "club" and invited suitable others!

Edited by Heffalump
Change

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty much the same view of them as being posted on here. They're (LHC) a bunch of knobs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can the congregation who pay tithes to Living Hope, Elim and other businesses/charities claim tax relief as a charitable donation?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes in the case of living dope as they are not only s registered BUSINESS but also a registered charity. Not sure of the others.

Edited by llap

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Manxman27 said:

Can the congregation who pay tithes to Living Hope, Elim and other businesses/charities claim tax relief as a charitable donation?

It looks like it.  LIVING HOPE COMMUNITY CHURCH LTD is registered charity 1076, registered c/o Turnstone (Isle of Man) Ltd,
Dolberg House, 9 Athol Street.  It's aims are:

Quote

To assist home and foreign missions or individuals who in the opinion of the Directors are engaged in similar activities as a service to God. To do all such things incidental or conducive to the attainment of the object above and in furtherance of the advancement of the Christian faith as defined in the Statement of Faith as annexed to this Memorandum

which reads pretty much as 'keeping their pastors in the style to which they have become accustomed'.  Charitable donations are tax deductible up to the total value of £7000 per annum, which suggests tax won't have been paid on most of them.  

(Elim don't seem to have a related charity, but  there could be something under another name.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tend to agree with a lot of what quilp has said in an earlier thread.

 

There’s an element of sensationalism in the Isle of Man Newspapers piece.  The paper doesn’t go on to ask the important follow-up questions.  At least the online article doesn’t cover them.  The three questions unanswered are…

 

  • What was the purpose of the visits and what was the religious or moral context?
  • Who agrees who then approves these visits.  This isn’t specific to the Living Home but for any religion or even business.  Is it down to the individual schools and is there a second pair of eyes scrutinising  these visits are in line with policy?
  • Why was there no letter to parents or ability to opt out?

 

I have a nephew at one of the schools concerned.  No letter or notification was given to his parents regarding the visit(s).  While he is a fairly cynical little bugger when it comes to religion his parents still want and need to know the purpose and content of these visits. 

 

The concern is here we have no idea of the subject matter or content of these visits.  Even if it was as innocuous as running a free book club at lunchtimes without any religious agenda it is morally wrong the parents and guardians were not advised of the visits.

 

On a broader note, the church does needs further scrutiny and not just their financial arrangements.   There needs to accessible accurate and balanced information available on their structure, practices and message.  As an organisation it has grown quickly and to a degree below the radar.  It has ambitions to elect members to local authorities, get into schools and expand their population.  All that is fine as long as it’s held to fair and public scrutiny and in balance I don’t want to see a witch hunt.  Assuming Living Hope are not doing anything wrong morally or legally they should be allowed to practice their faith as should any religion but not in schools.  Then  anyone thinking of getting involved will have fair and open access to their belief structure, financial arrangements, links to other organisations etc.

 

The way they seem to have historically indoctrinated new members is quite subtle and indirect initially.  Free childcare, social events etc and I would at least want to people to understand what that path eventually leads to.

 

On a personal note I have seen a close friend, an atheist, slowly drawn into the church.  Initially through their partner’s involvement, which started with kids clubs.    I would have never believe they would get involved in any religion but they ended up facing a difficult choice.  Get involved initially in the church community or see their partner and slowly the children become more distant and absent.  That friend is now heavily involved in the church.  The kids play with other members kids.  Socially they spend all their time within the community.  The church has become the sole focus and foundation of their life.  To the detriment of friends and family.  The once logic and strong rationale of my friend has gone down the drain.  He has a whole new belief and moral structure.    It’s not hard to see how that has slowly happened when so much of his life has been spent dedicated to the church and community.

 

In balance as a family they look happier, better off and healthier for it.  It’s filled a void that had existed in their life and brought them together.  In doing so it has left them isolated from the world and I would say quite vulnerable as a result.  I have seen in another instance the devastation that can happen to ostracised church members kicked out of the community.  Not physically barred but collectively cold shouldered as a result of a divorce.  One spouse (coincidently the breadwinner and more active member) was given all the support the other treated like a leper. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, William_Hartnell said:

In balance as a family they look happier, better off and healthier for it.  It’s filled a void that had existed in their life and brought them together.  In doing so it has left them isolated from the world and I would say quite vulnerable as a result.  I have seen in another instance the devastation that can happen to ostracised church members kicked out of the community.  Not physically barred but collectively cold shouldered as a result of a divorce.  One spouse (coincidently the breadwinner and more active member) was given all the support the other treated like a leper. 

This is the cultish bit (might have spelt that wrong), drawing vulnerable people in, pushing away those who question the actions or motives of the group.

"Don't question what you can do for Jesus, just do it, give him your money; don't ask for his help, just give it, tithe your money to him; Jesus loves you, and that is all you need, but he needs your money... er... for my home, and my car, and my holidays, other important things that Jesus needs me to have."

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to write a full essay on this church over on my new blog. I will try and dumb it down so that even a five year old can grasp how this cult do in fact teach you will burn in hell if you don't give them your money.

Edited by llap

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...