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Let Down...by govt and Society


Albert Tatlock
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Your "atrociously etc etc" is simply wrong. I don't see why you just can't admit it.

Quite a few homeless are ex-forces. In fact, thanks to our wonderfully benevolent, caring, tory government, the numbers of homeless have increased year on year for the last SEVEN fucking years! And we are a G7 nation! Something going badly wrong somewhere. Well, for the weak and vulnerable anyway....

But the vast majority come out and end up doing well. Two I know joined the Fire Service. They came back to say civilian life was a doddle. The shifts were piss easy, paid a lot of extra cash and the worst job they had to do was hose the remains of some unfortunate out from a lorries twin rear wheels and mudguards. 

I suspect, because I do not know, that a lot of ex-forces who are homeless would have ended up there regardless of their previous employment. 

So, in my personal experience, your "atrocious" claim is simply unfounded.

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IMO, as I work closely with someone who spent 20 years in the armed forces, some do come out fully functional. 

They have a job, family and confidence in themselves. (I'm deliberately not mentioning if this is a he/she)

I also have another friend who left - he was in the armed forces.  When he came out he was then denied a job as a prison warden!  Know why... Because they were looking for women to fill the quota!

I'm a woman, but I'd rather have someone with some credentials regarding discipline than fulfilling a 'quota'!

 

So yes, it's tough for people coming out but where I work they're more than welcome. 

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Bruce came from a good family background and was well brought up.

I remember him for his work with three mates in starting rugby at Castle Rushen High School in the late 1970s, which they did mainly in their own time as the PE teachers and the school in general, at least initially, was not prepared to give time and resources to the sport. Different days now of course.

In those days, unless you were a wizz at football and you were sleek victor ludorum material, the school cared little for you.

So now, those who were the last to be picked whenever football teams were chosen, soon became stars in their own right. Some who might have been bullied found themselves left alone by the so-called tough kids.

Such as second row material lads suddenly found they were good at a sport. They had a place. And were soon wearing school colour ties for their achievements - that would have been entirely unthinkable months before.

I don't know if Bruce was aware of this legacy, but I hope if any of his friends and family are reading this, then they should know how much good he did for the school but especially for those he helped give a chance to.

 

 

Edited by gettafa
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I served in the forces, Senior Service before you ask. 

There are many problems with those who leave the unique environment they have been indoctrinated into.

Some problems are as the direct result of the stresses and environments those people have been exposed to during their service. Some are as the result of not having someone instructing their every move, many struggle when on leave never mind when they have no where to return to.

The paying of rent or a mortgage is, for many, a totally new concept. The forces take at source so it is not something many have to think of until they leave.

The lack of any form of support network is also a major shock to many. They return to the place they grew up to find they know no one or, in the case of someone who has served only aven few years, that everyone they do know has moved on with their lives and has no longer got time to listen to the stories of the 'when-I' ex serviceman who has nothing else to talk about.

It is true that many who leave go on to have fruitful, productive lives.

It is also true that many either struggle to, or never find a purpose to their lives after discharge.

No matter how lowly,no matter how insignificant to the 'civi' population, each and every service person is given an identity, a meaning and a purpose during their service.

On discharge that is ripped away from them, the public, since most of them have no clue, treat them as novelties or inconveniences.

 

Nobody should ever feel surplus to requirements, no person who has served should ever go unsupported - but I will guarantee this - if someone who has learnt the self discipline required to serve decides they will follow a certain course, no intervention, no support network, no counsellor or friend will stand in their way.

As for any arsehole who wants blame the conservative government, the labour government  or the tellytubbies for the problems of homelessness - wake the fuck up!

The Conservatives might have made us homeless - Tony Blair and the Labour Party sent us to be shot, blown up, accused of breaching the Geneva Convention, persecuted and prosecuted at home for doing our job thanks to rules of engagement, set by the labour party, that made us nothing more than targets, not only to the taliban and every bastard else with lead, but also to cowardly bastards like you who use the situation of service personnel to promote political agendas.

Get in the trenches arsehole, then comment.

As a Matelot, I salute the Bootie.

I regret your loss,

I respect your choice,

Fair winds

 

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On 15/07/2017 at 10:14 AM, gettafa said:

Bruce came from a good family background and was well brought up.

I remember him for his work with three mates in starting rugby at Castle Rushen High School in the late 1970s, which they did mainly in their own time as the PE teachers and the school in general, at least initially, was not prepared to give time and resources to the sport. Different days now of course.

 

Gee. Thanks for that. 

Rugby at Castle Rushen in the 80's was an extension of the culture of violence and bullying that was endemic. 

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Well I was being charitable. And probably looking at it through rose tinteds

Actually, when I think about it, the guys were obsessive about their rugby and were given one of the football pitches to use as a rugby field. There were a few of the guys in the year below still occasionally used it for football during breaks if it was free. They were chased off by the gang of four and one of the gang randomly gave a younger lad a thumping. Bullying at play.

Maybe my post should be read in conjunction with yours Declan.

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14 hours ago, Speak The Truth said:

As for any arsehole who wants blame the conservative government, the labour government  or the tellytubbies for the problems of homelessness - wake the fuck up!

The Conservatives might have made us homeless - Tony Blair and the Labour Party sent us to be shot, blown up, accused of breaching the Geneva Convention, persecuted and prosecuted at home for doing our job thanks to rules of engagement, set by the labour party, that made us nothing more than targets, not only to the taliban and every bastard else with lead, but also to cowardly bastards like you who use the situation of service personnel to promote political agendas.

Get in the trenches arsehole, then comment.

FFS!

You sign up and you know that the government of the day may one day call your bluff and put you in harms way. In my day we just didn't care about whether it was legal or whatever. We just got on with it because the political ramifications of what we were doing could have been played out on Planet Zog for all the difference it made to us. Sure we all had our "Rules Of Engagement" cards but when asked if there was a "Shoot To Kill" policy an RSM replied "Put it this way, there is no Shoot To Wound policy". Basically reacting without hesitation was our best defence i.e. if you shoot at us we will try and kill you without the slightest hesitation or remorse.

Now I don't know if you are quoting someone and frankly I care even less. Although exploiting "our brave lads" for a political agenda is as old as warfare itself.

Now I've sacrificed quite a few family Christmas dinners to do Crisis at Christmas and work with the homeless. Mind you, the mother-in-laws cooking and general outlook in life might have had something to do with it. But let's just say I know about homelessness.

The Homelessness Reduction Act gained Royal Assent in April this year.

I'm not holding my breath.....

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The trouble with trying to design a process that helps people leaving the military adjust is that it would by nature be a one size fits all policy and even squaddies have individual personalities; despite Depot staff’s best efforts; and different needs.

I served five years in the pointy end of the British Army joining as a junior straight from school; like many I had no practical experience of bills, rent etc but did not find this a difficult concept on leaving, most don't. The best thing I did was bugger off travelling for about six months as soon as I left; in its own way that served as the halfway house some posters have suggested.

When I left I was still young with no responsibilities and served during a relatively quiet period for the British Army so PTSD wasn’t really an issue; I did tour NI but boredom was the most dangerous enemy when I went; along with the generic knob head that finds their way into every infantry company who doesn’t know which way to point a loaded rifle or how to clean his pants.

Several mates I joined with stayed in and went on to serve in Kosovo, Sierra Leone and various sandy places; they have seen terrible things and deal with it in a variety of ways; I had one good friend who went into a spiral after Sierra Leone. He dropped off the radar and no one could find him until he was found hanging in some woods in his home town, very little help was available back then and from anecdotal evidence it wasn’t until we started sending large numbers to Afghanistan that the MOD realised it had a duty of care for soldiers with PTSD. It is sad that it took the MOD so long to realise this.

Others who experienced similar horrors took advantage of what I’m told is now an OK system of support and counselling and have dealt quite well with their experiences; on our sadly rare meet ups I am truly horrified by some of their stories; and I don’t consider myself to be a shrinking violet.  

Yes; we all knew when we joined that we may go into combat but surprisingly they don’t put pictures of child soldiers and ethnic cleansing victims on the recruitment posters.

I’m still in touch with a couple I joined with who are now coming to the end of their careers in the Army; all are concerned about adjustment but have taken advantage of the many training courses that have been available to give themselves pretty enviable CV’s.  

Given the age of Mr. Moon I assume he joined in the late-seventies/early-eighties and I doubt that any support was available to him and he was clearly the type that required it; I know from talking to people who did them that those NI tours back then were pretty grim; mine were no picnic.

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