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Manx Gas Standing Charges

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The whole shebang was an attempt to level out their cash flow. Same with wanting everyone on direct debits. Everyone should really pay by cheque, preferably in two parts, a small amount after the bill arrives and the balance after the second letter, a minor irritation to get the point across.

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2 hours ago, the stinking enigma said:

They all passed the quirky in the office of fair trading test though

And the Perky, for long enough....

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1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

The whole shebang was an attempt to level out their cash flow. Same with wanting everyone on direct debits. Everyone should really pay by cheque, preferably in two parts, a small amount after the bill arrives and the balance after the second letter, a minor irritation to get the point across.

But if Mr Murphy and his supporters hadnt kicked up a fuss they’d have done nothing. This looks like a good outcome. It is quite amusing though that individual customers have to apply not to be ripped off. It’s not a unilateral withdrawal of the tariffs. You have to contact them to ask not to be ripped off, if you think you’re being ripped off, as I read it. 

Edited by MrPB
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Good move although they are probably going to increase the price of gas now to make up the shortfall, at least that is controllable by the user.   Good on MR Murphy.

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The is the afore mentioned Mr Murphy. What is important here is this I think. The Committee report into IOM gas provision is due now. Some say overdue. I think Comin will study the report this week and it will be discussed at Tynwald in February. 

The 2015 agreement is still in place. Either side can lawfully apply a six month notice period from January 2019. I do not know if this notice has been served by the IOM GOVT. What was not expected is that Manx Gas would undertake a PR operation at this stage of the 2015 agreement. They certainly had no legal responsibility to do so. 

Getting back to the important bit. Everything about the 2015 agreement is still in place. Assuming no notice has been served the agreement will be in place until at least July 2019. I have no idea what the Committee report will state but a whole number of options are possible. 

This story whilst not the most amazing thing ever, is only starting. Those interested on here should watch the news over the next few weeks. *Shocking Conclusions" is what Minister Thomas said. We shall see. Thank you for your interest. I hope fairness prevails. 

Barry. 

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8 hours ago, Bazza Smurf said:

The is the afore mentioned Mr Murphy. What is important here is this I think. The Committee report into IOM gas provision is due now. Some say overdue. I think Comin will study the report this week and it will be discussed at Tynwald in February. 

The 2015 agreement is still in place. Either side can lawfully apply a six month notice period from January 2019. I do not know if this notice has been served by the IOM GOVT. What was not expected is that Manx Gas would undertake a PR operation at this stage of the 2015 agreement. They certainly had no legal responsibility to do so. 

Getting back to the important bit. Everything about the 2015 agreement is still in place. Assuming no notice has been served the agreement will be in place until at least July 2019. I have no idea what the Committee report will state but a whole number of options are possible. 

This story whilst not the most amazing thing ever, is only starting. Those interested on here should watch the news over the next few weeks. *Shocking Conclusions" is what Minister Thomas said. We shall see. Thank you for your interest. I hope fairness prevails. 

Barry. 

Well done to you and your colleagues Barry. 

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Thank you Andy. It has been an interesting journey. Not much apart from a choice of tariffs will be gained probably at the end of it, but I watch what the future agreement will bring with interest. 

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38 minutes ago, Bazza Smurf said:

Thank you Andy. It has been an interesting journey. Not much apart from a choice of tariffs will be gained probably at the end of it, but I watch what the future agreement will bring with interest. 

Actually, what I think your action has shown up is the complete disregard and contempt that IOMG had/has for consumers. Had they consulted with them they could have saved themselves and MG from this embarrassing situation.

And from the taxpayers view of things the whole exercise was a pointless waste of time as MG accounts will never see the light of day, so we won't (and still don't) know if their charging structure is fair. Quite why the OFT was involved is mystery to me. Aren't they supposed to be the guardian of/for the consumer, protect the rights of the consumer? All they've done is aid and abet a company to guarantee it's profits at the expense of the consumer in a very opaque way. 

A total feck up from start to finish and is absolutely indicative of the way IOMG fails to understand how a business is run. 

The next feck up will be IOMSPCo.

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On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 10:43 PM, Bazza Smurf said:

The is the afore mentioned Mr Murphy. What is important here is this I think. The Committee report into IOM gas provision is due now. Some say overdue. I think Comin will study the report this week and it will be discussed at Tynwald in February. 

The 2015 agreement is still in place. Either side can lawfully apply a six month notice period from January 2019. I do not know if this notice has been served by the IOM GOVT. What was not expected is that Manx Gas would undertake a PR operation at this stage of the 2015 agreement. They certainly had no legal responsibility to do so. 

Getting back to the important bit. Everything about the 2015 agreement is still in place. Assuming no notice has been served the agreement will be in place until at least July 2019. I have no idea what the Committee report will state but a whole number of options are possible. 

This story whilst not the most amazing thing ever, is only starting. Those interested on here should watch the news over the next few weeks. *Shocking Conclusions" is what Minister Thomas said. We shall see. Thank you for your interest. I hope fairness prevails. 

Barry. 

I have not been able to post for a while as I was, yet again, barred from posting for speaking as I find.

I have previously been critical of your posts for various reasons, but I would like to put on record my thanks to you for all the work you have put in to get where we are now with Manx Gas and their dictating of what we will pay and how we will pay it.

 Well done Barry and thanks.:thumbsup:

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It's all cool Dilli. No record needed. I hugely appreciate your comment though. Thank you to you and all the other posters for keeping this story alive. The Isle of Man public brought about this U-turn. All I did was stand at the wheel. Thank you to you for being part of it also. Your point about "Manx Gas dictating" is the key here. The Banding charges were forced upon us without any warning. They affected some customers much more than they affected me. Only by meeting and speaking to some of these people and the sad stories I heard about how difficult it became for some to stay warm, did I realise I simply could not walk away. Manx Gas should be ashamed. They have yet to apologise or use the word sorry. When they do I for one will be even happier. 

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I suspect the shock conclusion will be that utility companies do not make a 10% gross profit on capital employed. Perhaps more like 5%. So the 2015 agreement was over generous because it was based on a false premise.

I think that is where campaigning should be focussed.

Ive watched Barry’s campaign. It’s always struck me as misconceived. I don’t think it’s won anything. The profit stayed at 10% under the 2015 agreement, it was just how income, and profit, was derived and divided between fixed capital cost charges, such as storing the gas and laying and maintaining the distribution costs and revenue costs, such as buying the gas. It made no difference to total gas bills, it changed the division of what we paid for and when.

I’m sure it was introduced because MG was getting a public battering because under the pre 2017 standing charge system when wholesale gas prices came down 50% MG prices only reduced 10% because so much of the fixed system costs were included in the gas consumed price rather than standing charges.

Of course that begs the question whether we should have standing charges at all, and, if the answer is yes, how should they be calculated.

Historically there have been standing, quarterly, or periodic, charges, for utilities such as gas, electric, phone.  The charges have been low, and don’t cover infrastructure costs, which are funded out of usage.

Then we’ve had water and sewage where there has been a charge based on property rental value in 1971, with no volume charge.

Now we have mobile telephones and internet and data, where you either PAYG which includes both infrastructure and actual call costs ( which are negligible once infrastructure is in place ) a capped monthly supply and a write off of volume purchased  not consumed at month end. Or unlimited contracts.

My view is that standing, or periodic charges, are a bit like rates, or Council charge, we don’t like them or the way theyre imposed, but alternatives, like poll taxes aren’t popular either. Of course generally they were low, however.

The MG banded standing charges were an attempt to make it economic and reflected Council charge banding in principle.

I’ve checked my e-bills for the last 5 years. My total consumption hasn’t changed more than 2% up or down  The annual billed total has remained static, more or less. The division between standing charges and gas consumed has changed. The ups and downs between winter and summer quarters have been smoothed.

Perhaps I’ve been lucky. But is there any real evidence that some people have ended up paying more, and others have paid much less? I haven’t seen it.

ive now got the chance of staying on the higher standing charge/lower gas tariff or moving back to low standing charge/higher gas tariff.

I think I’ll stay put.

 

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Didn't the taxpayer under Tony Brown's administration pay for much of the infrastructure installation/renewal? I can't remember the figure exactly but £80M keeps ringing a bell?

Incidentally, I had MG put me on a lower banding (a correction which I had to request from their automatic initial placement); it made a notable difference to my gas bills.

Edited by Non-Believer
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5 minutes ago, John Wright said:

 

Ive watched Barry’s campaign. It’s always struck me as misconceived. I don’t think it’s won anything.

 

It has (i think) made manx gas (and the government) aware that they were taking the piss, and that some people aren't going to sit back and take it anymore. It is good to see.

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23 minutes ago, John Wright said:

I suspect the shock conclusion will be that utility companies do not make a 10% gross profit on capital employed. Perhaps more like 5%. So the 2015 agreement was over generous because it was based on a false premise.

I think that is where campaigning should be focussed.

Ive watched Barry’s campaign. It’s always struck me as misconceived. I don’t think it’s won anything. The profit stayed at 10% under the 2015 agreement, it was just how income, and profit, was derived and divided between fixed capital cost charges, such as storing the gas and laying and maintaining the distribution costs and revenue costs, such as buying the gas. It made no difference to total gas bills, it changed the division of what we paid for and when.

I’m sure it was introduced because MG was getting a public battering because under the pre 2017 standing charge system when wholesale gas prices came down 50% MG prices only reduced 10% because so much of the fixed system costs were included in the gas consumed price rather than standing charges.

Of course that begs the question whether we should have standing charges at all, and, if the answer is yes, how should they be calculated.

Historically there have been standing, quarterly, or periodic, charges, for utilities such as gas, electric, phone.  The charges have been low, and don’t cover infrastructure costs, which are funded out of usage.

Then we’ve had water and sewage where there has been a charge based on property rental value in 1971, with no volume charge.

Now we have mobile telephones and internet and data, where you either PAYG which includes both infrastructure and actual call costs ( which are negligible once infrastructure is in place ) a capped monthly supply and a write off of volume purchased  not consumed at month end. Or unlimited contracts.

My view is that standing, or periodic charges, are a bit like rates, or Council charge, we don’t like them or the way theyre imposed, but alternatives, like poll taxes aren’t popular either. Of course generally they were low, however.

The MG banded standing charges were an attempt to make it economic and reflected Council charge banding in principle.

I’ve checked my e-bills for the last 5 years. My total consumption hasn’t changed more than 2% up or down  The annual billed total has remained static, more or less. The division between standing charges and gas consumed has changed. The ups and downs between winter and summer quarters have been smoothed.

Perhaps I’ve been lucky. But is there any real evidence that some people have ended up paying more, and others have paid much less? I haven’t seen it.

ive now got the chance of staying on the higher standing charge/lower gas tariff or moving back to low standing charge/higher gas tariff.

I think I’ll stay put.

 

Really ??? Manx gas will no doubt make ONLY 9.99999999999% profit. I admit you are far smarter than I am, but again, really ???

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35 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Didn't the taxpayer under Tony Brown's administration pay for much of the infrastructure installation/renewal? I can't remember the figure exactly but £80M keeps ringing a bell?

Incidentally, I had MG put me on a lower banding (a correction which I had to request from their automatic initial placement); it made a notable difference to my gas bills.

I think we gifted them 28 million to bring the pipeline ashore and distribute it around the island in return of the promise of cheap heat for all!

Edited by finlo
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