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Liverpool Arms Closes

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8 hours ago, foxdaleliberationfront said:

The Brewery can't get decent landlords these days (or pub managers as they call them) because they apparently offer a very shite salary for such long hours and responsibility 

The salary was never that fantastic. Landlords made their money on the food they sold. Greedy brewery took that away from them as well.

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10 hours ago, Kopek said:

I find it strange that the Manx Forums cognoscenti, normally so opposed to Govt interference, are here, fully behind a Govt agency,  (planning dept, ), countering the desires of a free market enterprise!

What the brewery are doing has nothing to do with free market enterprise.

It has everything to do with anti-competitive practice by a virtual monopoly that is increasingly failing, losing interest and losing its skill sets even in that business in which it has that virtual monopoly.

Had we a proper monopoly policing body on IoM, this wouldn't be happening.

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13 hours ago, John Wright said:

It’s been closed since 2013. It’s been sold by the brewery and has a no licensed premises covenant. So it can’t be difficult to show it cannot be economically used as licensed premises.

That must be a change from the original then John, I viewed the ship about 18 months ago and there was definitely a restriction contained back then.

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1 hour ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

That must be a change from the original then John, I viewed the ship about 18 months ago and there was definitely a restriction contained back then.

It's just a badly constructed sentence...

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1 hour ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

That must be a change from the original then John, I viewed the ship about 18 months ago and there was definitely a restriction contained back then.

It posted that it had a NO licensed premises restriction

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Who owns The Britannia in Ramsey? That’s been empty for years now and apparently it is in a right state. How many of H&Bs buildings are empty/for sale? They’ll never go bust because they own too much property for that to happen, they could suffer with cash flow issues with everything tied up but they love doing refits and changing menus so I can’t see that is the case.

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9 minutes ago, Annoymouse said:

Who owns The Britannia in Ramsey? That’s been empty for years now and apparently it is in a right state. How many of H&Bs buildings are empty/for sale? They’ll never go bust because they own too much property for that to happen, they could suffer with cash flow issues with everything tied up but they love doing refits and changing menus so I can’t see that is the case.

It was in a right state before they even closed it, in Feb 2014 IIRC. AFAIK, this too may be a registered building(?). So how is such neglect permitted? Only one or two rooms in the upstairs living accommodation were even habitable. Fungi and mould growing all over the lounge and bar upholstery a couple of years ago when I was able to have a quick skeet inside. Brewery workmen were removing some mahogany bars at the time.

Again, I think this has one of the world-reknowned covenants on it.

Edited by Non-Believer
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The reasons such covenants were introduced 100+ years ago was when a landowner was selling off land and didn't want to devalue the rest of the estate by having an existing house as a pub. Licensing would have been very different then and there were public houses all over the place.

It was a good enough reason to have such a covenant and there was a logic to it.

The covenants being used by the brewery these days need to be tested in court. They are not protecting the building or area, they are intended to maximise the brewery's wider business.

Could, say, a string of hairdressers sell one of their shops with a covenant that the premises is not used as a hairdresser and would it be enforceable? 

 

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Could be put forward as evidence to a planning tribunal perhaps - but that's probably as far as it goes

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1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

It was in a right state before they even closed it, in Feb 2014 IIRC. AFAIK, this too may be a registered building(?). So how is such neglect permitted? Only one or two rooms in the upstairs living accommodation were even habitable. Fungi and mould growing all over the lounge and bar upholstery a couple of years ago when I was able to have a quick skeet inside. Brewery workmen were removing some mahogany bars at the time.

Again, I think this has one of the world-reknowned covenants on it.

Can't see that it is listed (a lot of other Ramsey pubs are).

Still up for sale at £345,000, though presumably you'd just be buying the site, given the state and the amount you'd need to spend to refurbish (as anything).  But the Methodist Church opposite is on a bigger site and that only went for £200,000 recently.  So the price looks ... optimistic.  Maybe the Brewery fell out with their auditors over property values.

 It's described as a 'former' pub, though it doesn't say  about covenants.

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14 pubs a week are closing down in the UK. It's part of a shift in the wider economy. 

It's mental that people want to try and keep them all open.

Let them flog them off rather than letting them sit derelict for another 10 years. 

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1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

Can't see that it is listed (a lot of other Ramsey pubs are).

Still up for sale at £345,000, though presumably you'd just be buying the site, given the state and the amount you'd need to spend to refurbish (as anything).  But the Methodist Church opposite is on a bigger site and that only went for £200,000 recently.  So the price looks ... optimistic.  Maybe the Brewery fell out with their auditors over property values.

 It's described as a 'former' pub, though it doesn't say  about covenants.

My info on the sale of the Methodist Church at that price is that it was a knockdown fire sale; the dwindling (age grounds) number of "trustees" (if that was the term) could no longer afford its upkeep including some necessary upcoming repairs; had been threatened with a preservation order by DEFA if they applied for demolition; and had had their vision/plans for it to become a "community centre" effectively demolished by RTC's purchase and similar proposal for the Ramsey Courthouse.

As you show, the price that it's gone for makes a mockery of H&B's asking price for the smaller, far worse condition Brit opposite. Lowering of the financial sights required..?

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1 minute ago, Non-Believer said:

My info on the sale of the Methodist Church at that price is that it was a knockdown fire sale; the dwindling (age grounds) number of "trustees" (if that was the term) could no longer afford its upkeep including some necessary upcoming repairs; had been threatened with a preservation order by DEFA if they applied for demolition; and had had their vision/plans for it to become a "community centre" effectively demolished by RTC's purchase and similar proposal for the Ramsey Courthouse.

As you show, the price that it's gone for makes a mockery of H&B's asking price for the smaller, far worse condition Brit opposite. Lowering of the financial sights required..?

From H&B???

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3 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

From H&B???

Indeed, far fetched, apologies.

It'll have been empty and rotting for six years next February, there's at least another ten years left before they'd countenance any reduction...

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11 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

What the brewery are doing has nothing to do with free market enterprise.

...but then, neither is the Govt allowing free market etc. through the Planning restriction?

If Planning are going to resrtict the type of business, should they also take into account too much competition that will overcrowd a market and just lead to closures?

Would the Govt allow a competitor to Marks & Spencer to come into the market? No matter what they say are their reasons, I doubt it.

.and that is the thick end of the wedge, the LA is hardly important but the thin end may be things we do not think our Govt should be interfering in?

2 hours ago, gettafa said:

Could, say, a string of hairdressers sell one of their shops with a covenant that the premises is not used as a hairdresser and would it be enforceable? 

As has been said on here before. Any seller can put a covenant on a building, if the buyer accepts that covenant, then it is legally binding. I think that is what JW said?

A while ago it was not unusual to restrict the ty[pe of business that a new owner or indeed, a new lessee, could do in the property. Often, a xxx mile radius was attatched.

 

PS. My argument is not in support of H&B but rather in the Planning Dept acting in a manner to which we would not always want them to do so. they are a Govt dept. they can be expected to act on the Govts wishes, is that what we want???

PPS. I am not Trevor Cowin but would welcome his thoughts on this!

Edited by Kopek

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