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Panama Papers 2 is due to start later today


The Faceman
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6 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

It clearly isn't the biggest, but it's an attention-grabber "Look even the Queen's at it!".  I actually think it's a mistake because it is so trivial and the Royal holdings (so far) come out looking pretty clean, but there's a tendency for the ageing Blairites at the Guardian to strike anti-monarchist poses to show that they're still really radical, man and in a desperate attempt to distinguish themselves from Tories. 

And of course these are genuinely international revelations and the Queen may be the only Brit some people have heard of.  Not to mention that a lot of the jurisdictions discussed are British or ex-British. 

The thing is though that investing outside the UK isn't illegal as a UK resident and tax payer.  Anyone can do it. In fact huge numbers do.

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'Offshore Secrets of the Rich Exposed'
 
All I saw was a programme with shoddy reporting, from a guy who actually harassed people. Stories 'cobbled' together all to feed into a political agenda.
 
The secrets were actual private, confident information which were stolen - but they didn't happen to mention that slight detail did they. 
 
Or that the Isle of Man is highly regulated and against "dirty money" which they describe is being used.
 
The ICIJ pretend to 'share' this for the greater good.  Well I saw a witch-hunt, no objectivity, fairness or balance to the 'investigation'.
 
Actually it was more guilty until proven innocent.  When actually the ones in the wrong are the people who got access to this private data and shared it.
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4 minutes ago, llap said:

To quote myself (from a PM to the Faceman):

 

The trouble is though that there was no debate because it didn't suit Facemans agenda.

He posted a couple of links and basically offered nothing on them.  The reality was that the links were a bit like Panorama - just a load of relatively unimportant tosh that someone is desperate to make a story out of.

I mean, large multinational mineral company operating in third world country accused of X or Y. Really?  Hardly revelatory stuff.  And large multinational organisation has offshore structures.  Wow. Really?  Who knew eh? 

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As I said, let's wait for episode 2 and further print media articles before we act like smug assholes and end up with egg all over our faces. Best case scenario here: we lose millions of pounds in VAT and have to massively curtail and reform our shipping and aircraft registries, which will impact not only the DED (or Star Trek Discovery, or whatever they're calling themselves now) but also many legal /accountancy / trust / CSP firms who operate portfolios which are very much involved with those vessels and aircraft being registered here. Worst case: we lose another few hundred million in VAT.

Edited by llap
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22 minutes ago, hboy said:

A challenge to a poster we all know is now banned? 

The challenge was obviously not to the banned poster, but to those who banned him/her/it.

Only mods can prove that "Faceman"  was original or just yet another façade of you know who.

If I am proved wrong and said poster was "new" I will quit posting. Simple as that. ( you are most welcome to add the newby to the flock).:lol:

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4 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

Only mods can prove that "Faceman"  was original or just yet another façade of you know who.

Actually, no they can't. Moderators have no more idea than you as to who may or may not be who they claim. There's actually only one person who can definitively confirm whether or not Faceman was TJ and that person has already categorically rejected the claim and has no reason to lie about it really, as they do not need to invent a new login to have posted this thread.  Anyway, yet another violation of the S clause duly noted.

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20 minutes ago, llap said:

As I said, let's wait for episode 2 and further print media articles before we act like smug assholes and end up with egg all over our faces. Best case scenario here: we lose millions of pounds in VAT and have to massively curtail and reform our shipping and aircraft registries, which will impact not only the DED (or Star Trek Discovery, or whatever they're calling themselves now) but also many legal /accountancy / trust / CSP firms who operate portfolios which are very much involved with those vessels and aircraft being registered here. Worst case: we lose another few hundred million in VAT.

I think it is perfectly acceptable to discuss what Panorama have mentioned in their programme tonight.  I was disgusted by it actually, in so many ways.  A few of which I have mentioned above.

I agree with you saying, let's wait before episode 2 before commenting on that.  Why would we comment on what we don't know what will be in the programme & future printed media.

But then, you started jumping to some assumptions.   "Best case scenario"...  "Worst case"...

Let's wait and see what comes out before jumping to conclusions like that.  

Talk about what has been shown, not potential losses of VAT or anything else.

That's why I didn't like the programme tonight - they jump to conclusions and assumptions from data that is stolen.  Many of which were wrong and not fair at all.

That was not an investigation, it was a collection of agenda ridden accusations, mostly of which were false.  

Edited by chilledoutentertainer!
My ineptness!
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24 minutes ago, notwell said:

The thing is though that investing outside the UK isn't illegal as a UK resident and tax payer.  Anyone can do it. In fact huge numbers do.

Well  no, not 'investing'.  And the ICIJ are very careful to stress that it must not be assumed that anything in their stories or database implies that anything illegal has occurred.  But some arrangement may need to be declared and haven't been and others may cross the line into illegality.  And you've got to remember that it isn't just the UK there are clients from (many) dozens of countries, many of which will have stricter rules.

The documents from the 19 corporate registers look as if they may have come via Appleby as well - presumably staff there would need access as part of their job.  I do feel sorry for the staff who are going to get into work in the morning and have to face a barrage from clients who were given the impression that the leak was only limited.

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52 minutes ago, llap said:

Anyway, five pages in and I give up. Lots of people seem smugly self-congratulatory that this first of two episodes didn't look to bad for the island. Maybe wait for episode two and also actually try reading the written reports from the organisation of journalists which will find its way into the Financial Times and other world print media before jumping the shark and thinking we've come out smelling of roses.

2?

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