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Do the OAPs get a free ride


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37 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Anything that is "In general' is a generalisation. Think more deeply about that before you fire off ill thought out replies.

"In general" implies a majority.

As in "in general, AT's posts are off the cuff remarks with little/zero evidence to support them"

It's very true that our leaders (both private and public sector) have packaged up debt for "someone else" to deal with at some later date. To somehow blame this on the majority of over 45s is simply ridiculous. To even suggest it would occur to the vast majority of the population (in any demographic) is ludicrous.

For every 50 yo thinking "I hope someone takes care of my retirement" there is a 20 yo who will think the exact same thing in 30 years time.

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On 04/12/2017 at 10:28 PM, Neil Down said:

 

So having worked in most cases well in excess of 40 years, you’d begrudge a bus pass. Look at it from a different angle. More oldies on buses, less driving round in cars...

So because they may have put some money in the pot, poor excuse. There is no evidence to say they all have. The days of free passes, free tv licences etc should be long gone. More likely I've put more money 'in the pot' than the present oaps and I've still got another 25 years to go or will it be 30 or 35 years by then. BecAuse of a generation that has had everything for nothing and still they want more. Post war generation has all the wealth for nothing and yet are the biggest drain. And the bastards are living longer, they'll have spent more time being retired than time served in employment. Pay your way. Because I know I'll have to, my children will have to and my children's children will have to. 

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1 hour ago, Gizo said:

So because they may have put some money in the pot, poor excuse. There is no evidence to say they all have. The days of free passes, free tv licences etc should be long gone. More likely I've put more money 'in the pot' than the present oaps and I've still got another 25 years to go or will it be 30 or 35 years by then. BecAuse of a generation that has had everything for nothing and still they want more. Post war generation has all the wealth for nothing and yet are the biggest drain. And the bastards are living longer, they'll have spent more time being retired than time served in employment. Pay your way. Because I know I'll have to, my children will have to and my children's children will have to. 

And some of your best friends are Jewish?

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1 hour ago, Gizo said:

So because they may have put some money in the pot, poor excuse. There is no evidence to say they all have. The days of free passes, free tv licences etc should be long gone. More likely I've put more money 'in the pot' than the present oaps and I've still got another 25 years to go or will it be 30 or 35 years by then. BecAuse of a generation that has had everything for nothing and still they want more. Post war generation has all the wealth for nothing and yet are the biggest drain. And the bastards are living longer, they'll have spent more time being retired than time served in employment. Pay your way. Because I know I'll have to, my children will have to and my children's children will have to. 

The word “likely” is yet another generalisation. You may have put more in than some. I seriously doubt you have put in more than all the present oap’s. Do you have anything concrete to back your claim up?

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8 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

The word “likely” is yet another generalisation. You may have put more in than some. I seriously doubt you have put in more than all the present oap’s. Do you have anything concrete to back your claim up?

Do you have any claim that they put in the pot? As you previously inferred. 

Id say putting threpence h'penny in a week for 20 years really is justification. 

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4 minutes ago, Gizo said:

Do you have any claim that they put in the pot? As you previously inferred. 

Id say putting threpence h'penny in a week for 20 years really is justification. 

It is all really very simple. We were required by law to pay a tax called National Insurance. The so called "pot" is largely a myth. What you are investing in is a social contract.

They took it off us (and now you) and said "You will get this, that and the other."..We did as we were told. We got a state pension based on our level of NI.

Now much later it was necessary to top things up. A lot happened. There was the massive unemployment of the 1980s for a start. You then got an NI credit.

The problem of today arose when in order to win votes politicians promised a lot more. So we got Winter Fuel (Here) Cold Weather (Here) Council Tax Benefit etc..Free bus passes. Maybe those should have been means tested. Some people refuse or give them back to the Treasury (UK).

However, test cases at the European Court of Human Rights under the First Protocol to both the Convention and the Act which also apply to the IOM have resulted in judgements to the effect that "your possession and property" can include rights to specified Benefits which you have been told to expect to receive as a result of compulsory social security taxation.

So, on that basis the right to any non-means tested Benefits can be regarded as your rightful property and possessions. There are lawful variations as you might say but they must be proportionate.

Now you can research these issues on the website of the European Court of Human Rights. It is of course more complex than that but basically I paid in to a promise and I want what I was told I was contractually paying in for. Anything else I am happy to have means tested.

Personally I think Winter Fuel, Cold Weather and Bus passes should be means tested. Down on my manor if there were no bus passes the shops would see a massive drop off in footfall. The bus pass pensioners really do constitute over here in a large population a massive economic force when we go out on the bus spending. Over there maybe less so. Over here every pension day (That is three days a week now) is like the Xmas rush.

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16 hours ago, Barrie Stevens said:

It is all really very simple. We were required by law to pay a tax called National Insurance. The so called "pot" is largely a myth. What you are investing in is a social contract.

They took it off us (and now you) and said "You will get this, that and the other."..We did as we were told. We got a state pension based on our level of NI.

Now much later it was necessary to top things up. A lot happened. There was the massive unemployment of the 1980s for a start. You then got an NI credit.

The problem of today arose when in order to win votes politicians promised a lot more. So we got Winter Fuel (Here) Cold Weather (Here) Council Tax Benefit etc..Free bus passes. Maybe those should have been means tested. Some people refuse or give them back to the Treasury (UK).

However, test cases at the European Court of Human Rights under the First Protocol to both the Convention and the Act which also apply to the IOM have resulted in judgements to the effect that "your possession and property" can include rights to specified Benefits which you have been told to expect to receive as a result of compulsory social security taxation.

So, on that basis the right to any non-means tested Benefits can be regarded as your rightful property and possessions. There are lawful variations as you might say but they must be proportionate.

Now you can research these issues on the website of the European Court of Human Rights. It is of course more complex than that but basically I paid in to a promise and I want what I was told I was contractually paying in for. Anything else I am happy to have means tested.

Personally I think Winter Fuel, Cold Weather and Bus passes should be means tested. Down on my manor if there were no bus passes the shops would see a massive drop off in footfall. The bus pass pensioners really do constitute over here in a large population a massive economic force when we go out on the bus spending. Over there maybe less so. Over here every pension day (That is three days a week now) is like the Xmas rush.

Sounds like such an idyllic situation you have, my, I love to hear these "tales" of happiness, brings a smile to my gub.

Edited by twinkle
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Those days of "never had it so good" did not exist as far as I was concerned. It was extremely hard to get a mortgage, and even harder to keep up the payments. National Insurance was statutory, but at least there was a promise that there would be a state pension.

I tried to save, but anything that I put into a building society came out at Christmas, to pay for the "must haves". To avoid this, whenever I had enough money, I took it out to buy shares. Some went into companies that gave "perks", and some where a trip to the agm would be a good day out (breweries, for instance!). I took the dividends in shares where possible. At least I couldn't easily cash them in and spend the money. From retirement, the dividends have been taken in cash. Yes, there have been a few failed companies along the way, but some others have done exceptionally well.

That prudence from when I was a lot younger has meant that as well as a mediocre works pension, I now get enough dividend income to keep me comfortable.

I get state pension, which I worked and paid for, which gives me enough leeway to help out a few charities of my choice.

One thing I have never been is a scrounger (though we did spend a year or so in a council flat before mother-in-law raided her bank for a deposit for us to buy our first house).

I once advised an IOM pensioner that she should apply for her state pension, as she was entitled to one, then as she did not need the money herself, she could give it to one of the charities that she already gave to on a regular basis. She would not demean herself to apply for something she did not need, so the Government benefitted. There are some people like that.

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