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Irish Border Question


Utah 01
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This is a question aimed primarily at the forum accountant/constitution experts post yesterday's BREXIT debacle.  It would appear that May was almost on the verge of selling out to Dublin and giving the go-ahead for the UK/Irish Border to run north/south through the Irish Sea.  Which side of the line would the Isle of Man have been placed given our divided loyalties vis a vis the UK and EU?  Just asking.

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2 hours ago, Utah 01 said:

This is a question aimed primarily at the forum accountant/constitution experts post yesterday's BREXIT debacle.  It would appear that May was almost on the verge of selling out to Dublin and giving the go-ahead for the UK/Irish Border to run north/south through the Irish Sea.  Which side of the line would the Isle of Man have been placed given our divided loyalties vis a vis the UK and EU?  Just asking.

Neither. The IOM is neither in the UK nor the EU. As at present it has Protocol 3 an arrangement with the then "Common Market" so called specially negotiated for the Crown Dependencies and appended at the time to the UK Treaty of Accession...

Brexit if it happens and reaches an end means in effect the collapse of Protocol 3 and a whole new arrangement. The Island stands or falls by whatever the UK can do for it or wants to do for it. No one knows how "In" or "Out" the Crown Dependencies will be. But then no one has a clue about anything at the moment!

Any borders would be trade/customs/single market related. They are not redrafting the borders of the territories and states involved. 

The Island's position would be dependent on its future trade and business access relationship to the UK and EU and more than likely would like Protocol 3 appear as some sort of appendix.

The Island has no divided loyalties other than as individuals  It is British territory. It is not in the EU. The last word as ever is in London if you can find anyone actually in charge!

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3 hours ago, Utah 01 said:

This is a question aimed primarily at the forum accountant/constitution experts post yesterday's BREXIT debacle.  It would appear that May was almost on the verge of selling out to Dublin and giving the go-ahead for the UK/Irish Border to run north/south through the Irish Sea.  Which side of the line would the Isle of Man have been placed given our divided loyalties vis a vis the UK and EU?  Just asking.

It's not an actual line down the middle of the irish sea you know! :D As Barrie says, that's our situation

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4 hours ago, Donald Trumps said:

How is it still British territory Bazza if we have bought everything back off them?

In the immortal words of the Irish American bloke who played tennis "You cannot be serious!"

OK! My urine is being extracted.

If it was not British you would be independent. You are not. You have a British Governor. Your head of state is well, you know who! Your laws need Royal Assent passed on from London...The Act of Revestment re-acquired the feudal dues and regalities back into the Crown...You are British sovereign territory. You have British passports (British Islands). You area awaiting what ever the UK dishes out over Brexit. (If there is still anyone in the London office of course)

Certain Crown lands and Crown Estate were put into the hands of Isle of Man Govt which has no legal standing last I looked. The Island was allowed to purchase such as Ronaldsway, RAF Jurby and the balance of harbours estate at various times...But the Isle of Man remains British.

Now my bladder is empty and I shall not require my incontinence pads tonight (Which as a pampered OAP I apparently and according to you lot get free!)

 

 

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1 hour ago, woody2 said:

iom haven't bought anything.....

There was the purchase of something like an extended seaward territorial limit and mineral and fishing rights...I forget the precise details but over the years some military land and installations have been purchased from UK Govt entities like any other "Army surplus" 

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50 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said:

In the immortal words of the Irish American bloke who played tennis "You cannot be serious!"

OK! My urine is being extracted.

If it was not British you would be independent. You are not. You have a British Governor. Your head of state is well, you know who! Your laws need Royal Assent passed on from London...The Act of Revestment re-acquired the feudal dues and regalities back into the Crown...You are British sovereign territory. You have British passports (British Islands). You area awaiting what ever the UK dishes out over Brexit. (If there is still anyone in the London office of course)

Certain Crown lands and Crown Estate were put into the hands of Isle of Man Govt which has no legal standing last I looked. The Island was allowed to purchase such as Ronaldsway, RAF Jurby and the balance of harbours estate at various times...But the Isle of Man remains British.

Now my bladder is empty and I shall not require my incontinence pads tonight (Which as a pampered OAP I apparently and according to you lot get free!)

 

The Isle of Man isn't 'British', nor is it 'British territory'. It isn't part of the United Kingdom, nor part of Great Britain nor is it a British Overseas territory, nor is it part of the Commonwealth nor is it a member of the EU. Its a self governing possession of the Crown, and one of the British Isles, therefore its citizens are British. Interestingly the Isle of Man is in the EU customs area so Brexit could be more significant than you suggest...

 

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18 minutes ago, Expatriate said:

 

I did not suggest that Brexit was of no significance. It is significant because the Island has Protocol 3 which was appended to the UK Treaty of Accession and which gave the IOM  a limited relationship to the "Common Market"...Google Protocol 3.

However, it is well known that, depending on what the UK does about Brexit, then Protocol 3 could very well fall, fail and become irrelevant such that even now the Island is lobbying hard in Westminster and being kept briefed on developments...

Trouble is not even the UK seems to know where it is headed.  All we do know is that on the face of it where the UK goes its Crown Dependencies (IOM and Channel Islands) will more than likely follow save for any deal that the UK is able to get for them.

This is what happened when the UK went into the Common Market so called. They managed to get the three  Crown Dependencies some special dispensations in the form of Protocol 3.

These issues have been heavily publicised in the Island's media.

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30 minutes ago, Expatriate said:

 

The link below might help. The Island is only internally self-governing by the way. But Westminster does have the right to legislate though by convention does not do so save by request.

I suggest you Google "The Act of Revestment" likewise the Island's relationship with the Commonwealth which is a little nebulous..

Some years ago now maybe 25 years or so they did recategorise the Crown Dependencies under a new title "The British Islands"..

I have a passport issued on the Isle of Man it states "British Islands"..(and EU but that is a bit of a lacuna)

The UK has the right to legislate for the Island(s) which it can only do because of holding the Sovereignty. In the EU they describe the UK as the "Sovereign power" or "metropolitan power". Because it has the right legislate over the heads of Tynwald it must be sovereign. It has been threatened in the past.

You will find out about sovereignty if you read The Act of Revestment...

You are very British. Not part of the UK which is a political union but still British.

https://www.gov.im/about-the-government/departments/cabinet-office/external-relations/constitution/

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3 hours ago, Barrie Stevens said:

There was the purchase of something like an extended seaward territorial limit and mineral and fishing rights...I forget the precise details but over the years some military land and installations have been purchased from UK Govt entities like any other "Army surplus" 

yes, the loss making management was passed onto iomg....

 

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