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TT 2018

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12 minutes ago, Doitonce said:

This being my point.  The car was responding to an incident, under instruction.  Who was behind the wheel, doesn't make a difference to the end result.

Under who’s instruction? What process led to two vehicles going in opposite direction? Why was it necessary to drive at ridiculous speeds to a scene that had resolved itself. There was considerable time in order to stop the riders, get instruction, turn round drive 5 miles back along the course and still a car is hurtling to the scene at 100mph, why?

what procedure has changed? Why isn’t this made public? Why can’t the victim know the answers? Any other incident on a road you would.

 

it stinks. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Gizo said:

Under who’s instruction? What process led to two vehicles going in opposite direction? Why was it necessary to drive at ridiculous speeds to a scene that had resolved itself. There was considerable time in order to stop the riders, get instruction, turn round drive 5 miles back along the course and still a car is hurtling to the scene at 100mph, why?

what procedure has changed? Why isn’t this made public? Why can’t the victim know the answers? Any other incident on a road you would.

 

it stinks. 

Answer to all - because that's what protocols dictated, as has been made clear.

No one is denying there is a monumental screw up by sending the bikes back to the Grandstand, no one (it appears) is supporting the decision to withhold the content of the report.  What is being commented on however, is the apportioning of blame, which, according to the comments of some in this thread, is being apportioned squarely at the feet of the driver of the car, which for me, is out of order (and arguing the toss over who was behind the wheel, police or not, doesn't make a shits worth of difference to the outcome). It is clear that the cause of the problem is in the communication, be it either the message that was given, or the (mis)understanding of it, so if there is ire towards those directly involved in the incident, or the decision to withhold the report into the incident - this is where the focus of the ire should be directed.

Edited by Doitonce
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28 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

Fact is that the car was proceeding in the correct direction, the bikes were not. Somebody fucked up big time in telling the riders to go back anti clockwise.

That is all

It does not matter one jot whether the car was doing 30 mph or 130 mph, it was proceeding in the right direction. That is all that comes into play.

Pick the bones out of it.

not looking for a row 'dilli' you may well be absolutely correct .

I have heard a few contradictory rumours /stories/assertions from many sources .

 The only way 'we' will know exactly what happened and who said what to whom and when and who was authorised to do do what by Race Control is if 'we' are provided with a the  full report of the incident .

I'm told that  radio conversations between  TM's , others authorised to be on the course  including  marshals and Race Control are taped  so it should not be difficult to  determine to establish what exactly happened .

Unless and until the report is made public I feel it is not helpful to apportion blame .

Just saying:flowers:

 

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2 minutes ago, paswt said:

not looking for a row 'dilli' you may well be absolutely correct .

I have heard a few contradictory rumours /stories/assertions from many sources .

 The only way 'we' will know exactly what happened and who said what to whom and when and who was authorised to do do what by Race Control is if 'we' are provided with a the  full report of the incident .

I'm told that  radio conversations between  TM's , others authorised to be on the course  including  marshals and Race Control are taped  so it should not be difficult to  determine to establish what exactly happened .

Unless and until the report is made public I feel it is not helpful to apportion blame .

Just saying:flowers:

 

it will not be made public though. A marshall fucked up. end of.

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In 6 weeks time the people responsible do it all again with a clean slate  - which is why everyone with an ounce of humilty, common sense and decency is still questioning the cover up.

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2 minutes ago, Mr Helmut Fromage said:

In 6 weeks time the people responsible do it all again with a clean slate  - which is why everyone with an ounce of humilty, common sense and decency is still questioning the cover up.

|That is probably the saddest thing about it.

 The death race must continue at all cost.

It really is time to stop this bloodbath. How long can we live on the proceedes of people dying in quite large numbers.

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That is why the report should be made public, not because the blame, and there is blame, is to start a lynch mob but to regain trust of the riders and the public that this event is being properly run with safety being paramount.   God only knows the event is dangerous enough for the riders without cock ups like this.    It cannot be covered up there was a human error here by a course controller or by a Marshall simple as, the driver of the car was following orders, the rider was following orders, so who gave the orders ? 

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1 minute ago, hissingsid said:

That is why the report should be made public, not because the blame, and there is blame, is to start a lynch mob but to regain trust of the riders and the public that this event is being properly run with safety being paramount.   God only knows the event is dangerous enough for the riders without cock ups like this.    It cannot be covered up there was a human error here by a course controller or by a Marshall simple as, the driver of the car was following orders, the rider was following orders, so who gave the orders ? 

Time to stop the whole charade.

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The rumour I heard at the time was that the dreadful, fatal accident was being handled very sensitively on the airways as relatives of the rider involved may have heard about it before being informed formally and there was little information being relayed so the Marshall who gave the ok to the riders to proceed the wrong way to to grandstand may not have had all the info.   This is what I heard, could be true, could be complete bollocks but it would explain the confusion as some confusion there certainly was as marshalls, as I understand it have to have permission from the clerk of the course before they send any riders back to the grandstand.    As I say this is what I heard and may be a million miles away from what happened but the truth should be aired not only for Mercers sake but for every rider who takes part in racing on this Island.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

The rumour I heard at the time was that the dreadful, fatal accident was being handled very sensitively on the airways as relatives of the rider involved may have heard about it before being informed formally and there was little information being relayed so the Marshall who gave the ok to the riders to proceed the wrong way to to grandstand may not have had all the info.   This is what I heard, could be true, could be complete bollocks but it would explain the confusion as some confusion there certainly was as marshalls, as I understand it have to have permission from the clerk of the course before they send any riders back to the grandstand.    As I say this is what I heard and may be a million miles away from what happened but the truth should be aired not only for Mercers sake but for every rider who takes part in racing on this Island.

Not a million miles but about two feet. Cock up to end all cock ups.

 Yes it should be made public, if not for the taxpayer who pays for this shite, but for the rider who fancies a go at the TT.

It is so unfair to let riders sign up for this farce, without knowing what totally amateur management the so called races are governed by.

Edited by dilligaf
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It is so sad that this farce continues and misleads the newby riders.

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10 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

it will not be made public though. A marshall fucked up. end of.

You cannot evidence that statement.

 The report is should be made public (  the individuals 'responsible need not/ should not  be named )

That said after a previous incident the 'parcel of guilt ' was passed around and dumped incorrectly on an individual (who was subsequently exonerated).

I marshal and there are a few folk within the organisation (past and present ) who , I did/do not warm to ,would not trust and frankly would cross the road to avoid .

 I would not like to see the blame shovelled down to the foot soldier (without irrefutable evidence) because it would be 'convenient' . In the case of a train crash it's always handy if you can blame the engine driver.

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, paswt said:

You cannot evidence that statement.

 The report is should be made public (  the individuals 'responsible need not/ should not  be named )

That said after a previous incident the 'parcel of guilt ' was passed around and dumped incorrectly on an individual (who was subsequently exonerated).

I marshal and there are a few folk within the organisation (past and present ) who , I did/do not warm to ,would not trust and frankly would cross the road to avoid .

 I would not like to see the blame shovelled down to the foot soldier (without irrefutable evidence) because it would be 'convenient' . In the case of a train crash it's always handy if you can blame the engine driver.

 

 

 

 

Yes I can . Thank you.

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2 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

Yes I can . Thank you.

Were you the marshal concerned?

 

42 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

it will not be made public though. A marshall fucked up. end of.

 

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10 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

Yes I can . Thank you.

Go on then.

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