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TT 2018

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Posted (edited)

I have not previously posted on this thread. I have only one point to make.

If this event were being held on a private circuit (Jurby, Brands whatever) then of course the issues of responsibility, organisation, investigation and reports etc. would be - barring Civil or Criminal actions, purely a matter between the organisers, the participants, and any attending public. If the ACU (or whatever organisation) chose to either release or withhold their report, then failing any such court action it would indeed be a matter for them, it would be their report.

If however, the event were to be held on public, taxpayer funded property (does the TT circuit hold all ownership rights of any land onto which a 200mph bike may potentially impinge?)  then those same public are surely entitled to question, examine, hear any evidential report, and ultimately vote upon any or all activities conducted on either their public roads or indeed adjacent privately owned property which may be at risk from such activities.

Surely it is for the organisers (including the ACU) TO MAKE THEIR CASE AND REQUEST PERMISSION - It is not for the property owners to beg for enquiry results!

On public roads, the report belongs to the public, not to the ACU. If the ACU insist on making their report private, then we need independent reports by, for, and on behalf of the Public. In such a scenario, the ACU report becomes an irrelevance in determining the granting of the road closure. It is the Public's road, not the ACU's road.

If the case for the TT, in modern times, is strong enough then fine, let the organisers state what their case is, and let the public make their decision based on the evidence so presented.

If somebody wishes to close our public roads, and travel at such speeds that they may well exit our public roads and impinge on our private property, then it is up to those people WHO WISH TO APPLY TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC ROAD, to demonstrate that they can do so safely and responsibly to our satisfaction - they need to make their case to us, we have no such case to make.

Edited by Manximus Aururaneus
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1 hour ago, display name said:
3 hours ago, Gizo said:

 as a taxpayer I would like answers.

Since when did paying taxes give you a right to information ?

I agree with Gizo that the public have a right to be told why this happened.

Nobody needs to know who the person was (maybe) who told the riders to return anti clockwise, but we should be told why there was not a safety net in place to prevent what could have been a disaster. Why was the instruction not verified ? Is nothing repeated or even questioned as a safety measure.

We live in the age of communications, so why was this so slack that one person thought they knew what to do without any back up or confirmation ?

I feel very sorry for the person, but at the end of the day he did not make the rules or call the shots.

The system is f***** up, so people are now wondering what else is wrong in the set up and how it might impact them. Silence is the wrong way to treat the people who allow the event to happen.

 This is not doing the event any favours at all, as it is just fuelling the anti TT tax payers of which there are more than you might think.

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As a taxpayer if I have contributed to someone’s serious injury by part funding this event I would like to see something to explain what happened. 

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59 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

If somebody wishes to close our public roads, and travel at such speeds that they may well exit our public roads and impinge on our private property, then it is up to those people WHO WISH TO APPLY TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC ROAD, to demonstrate that they can do so safely and responsibly to our satisfaction - they need to make their case to us, we have no such case to make.

 

18 minutes ago, MrPB said:

As a taxpayer if I have contributed to someone’s serious injury by part funding this event I would like to see something to explain what happened. 

In a democracy you subcontract those decisions to politicians and civil servants who assess the facts on your behalf and make a decision. If you don't agree, you vote in people who are more sympathetic to your cause. If every person on the island could spare the time to disseminate every piece of information and make an unbiased decision on every single act of legislation then maybe this could happen.  

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5 minutes ago, Max Power said:

In a democracy you subcontract those decisions to politicians and civil servants who assess the facts on your behalf and make a decision. If you don't agree, you vote in people who are more sympathetic to your cause. If every person on the island could spare the time to disseminate every piece of information and make an unbiased decision on every single act of legislation then maybe this could happen.  

Balls.

That might be how you think it works but even if that was true as a taxpayer it should at least be expected that those people would release a report that I could read to explain what they did and what went on. That’s called good corporate governance. You don’t just empower people to do what they want unchecked. Reports on their actions should be available for public scrutiny as they are paid by us and are accountable to us. 

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4 minutes ago, MrPB said:

Balls.

That might be how you think it works but even if that was true as a taxpayer it should at least be expected that those people would release a report that I could read to explain what they did and what went on. That’s called good corporate governance. You don’t just empower people to do what they want unchecked. Reports on their actions should be available for public scrutiny as they are paid by us and are accountable to us. 

I think you may be living in some sort of fantasy if you believe that happens. 

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55 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

I agree with Gizo that the public have a right to be told why this happened.

Nobody needs to know who the person was (maybe) who told the riders to return anti clockwise, but we should be told why there was not a safety net in place to prevent what could have been a disaster. Why was the instruction not verified ? Is nothing repeated or even questioned as a safety measure.

We live in the age of communications, so why was this so slack that one person thought they knew what to do without any back up or confirmation ?

I feel very sorry for the person, but at the end of the day he did not make the rules or call the shots.

The system is f***** up, so people are now wondering what else is wrong in the set up and how it might impact them. Silence is the wrong way to treat the people who allow the event to happen.

 This is not doing the event any favours at all, as it is just fuelling the anti TT tax payers of which there are more than you might think.

Well said

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2 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I think you may be living in some sort of fantasy if you believe that happens. 

So you don’t believe in good governance and accountability? 

I’m sorry but going back up this thread you clearly lack any ability to look at this objectively. I assume that is because you know those concerned and as far as you’re concerned they can do what they like and it’s none of our business. 

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1 hour ago, dilligaf said:

I agree with Gizo that the public have a right to be told why this happened.

Of course they do. But this is the IOM remember. 

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8 minutes ago, MrPB said:

So you don’t believe in good governance and accountability? 

I’m sorry but going back up this thread you clearly lack any ability to look at this objectively. I assume that is because you know those concerned and as far as you’re concerned they can do what they like and it’s none of our business. 

Of course I do but you are creating your own reality, there have been many serious incidents around the course over many years involving very serious injuries. They are never investigated in public although steps to prevent a recurrence of those which can be prevented are often taken. The organisers have taken steps, following a thorough investigation which has satisfied our authorities, to mitigate the findings. 

And don't ever accuse me of not caring, you don't know me or anything about me! I think several people are not looking at this objectively and I'm not one of them!

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2 minutes ago, Max Power said:

And don't ever accuse me of not caring, you don't know me or anything about me! I think several people are not looking at this objectively and I'm not one of them!

You’re right I don’t know you at all. But I have read your posts and that is the conclusion that the posts that you have made above lead me to. How can anyone not agree that a public report needs to be published? It’s just good governance.

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1 minute ago, Max Power said:
20 minutes ago, MrPB said:

So you don’t believe in good governance and accountability? 

I’m sorry but going back up this thread you clearly lack any ability to look at this objectively. I assume that is because you know those concerned and as far as you’re concerned they can do what they like and it’s none of our business. 

Of course I do but you are creating your own reality, there have been many serious incidents around the course over many years involving very serious injuries. They are never investigated in public although steps to prevent a recurrence of those which can be prevented are often taken. The organisers have taken steps, following a thorough investigation which has satisfied our authorities, to mitigate the findings. 

And don't ever accuse me of not caring, you don't know me or anything about me! I think several people are not looking at this objectively and I'm not one of the

In fairness to MrPB, we know there have been many serious incidents around the course, but this was a BIG mistake in instruction, not just one of the 300 ish deaths that have happened.

We all know that fast bikes crash and people die, but we are talking about a body taking responsibility for a cock up and a massive breakdown in vital communications.

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2 minutes ago, MrPB said:

You’re right I don’t know you at all. But I have read your posts and that is the conclusion that the posts that you have made above lead me to. How can anyone not agree that a public report needs to be published? It’s just good governance.

I have never said that a public report doesn't need publishing though, only that the ACU internal report should probably not be released. If you read my posts I have said that I was surprised that there was no H&S inquiry and tried to give reasons why that may not have happened?

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17 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I have never said that a public report doesn't need publishing though, only that the ACU internal report should probably not be released. If you read my posts I have said that I was surprised that there was no H&S inquiry and tried to give reasons why that may not have happened?

Ok, thanks for clarifying. 

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8 hours ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

I have not previously posted on this thread. I have only one point to make.

If this event were being held on a private circuit (Jurby, Brands whatever) then of course the issues of responsibility, organisation, investigation and reports etc. would be - barring Civil or Criminal actions, purely a matter between the organisers, the participants, and any attending public. If the ACU (or whatever organisation) chose to either release or withhold their report, then failing any such court action it would indeed be a matter for them, it would be their report.

If however, the event were to be held on public, taxpayer funded property (does the TT circuit hold all ownership rights of any land onto which a 200mph bike may potentially impinge?)  then those same public are surely entitled to question, examine, hear any evidential report, and ultimately vote upon any or all activities conducted on either their public roads or indeed adjacent privately owned property which may be at risk from such activities.

Surely it is for the organisers (including the ACU) TO MAKE THEIR CASE AND REQUEST PERMISSION - It is not for the property owners to beg for enquiry results!

On public roads, the report belongs to the public, not to the ACU. If the ACU insist on making their report private, then we need independent reports by, for, and on behalf of the Public. In such a scenario, the ACU report becomes an irrelevance in determining the granting of the road closure. It is the Public's road, not the ACU's road.

If the case for the TT, in modern times, is strong enough then fine, let the organisers state what their case is, and let the public make their decision based on the evidence so presented.

If somebody wishes to close our public roads, and travel at such speeds that they may well exit our public roads and impinge on our private property, then it is up to those people WHO WISH TO APPLY TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC ROAD, to demonstrate that they can do so safely and responsibly to our satisfaction - they need to make their case to us, we have no such case to make.

Jurby is a publicly owned circuit.

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