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Max Power
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With Brexit almost upon us and the depletion of the armed forces, would Britain be able to defend itself in the event of another war? 

Our industrial capacity has declined as has our capacity to feed ourselves, these are factors which lead me to believe that we could not have a good outcome? 

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27 minutes ago, Max Power said:

With Brexit almost upon us and the depletion of the armed forces, would Britain be able to defend itself in the event of another war? 

Our industrial capacity has declined as has our capacity to feed ourselves, these are factors which lead me to believe that we could not have a good outcome? 

well apart from the uk imports less food than it did in WW2 and produce more arms than ever......

yes of course they can, but i don't think you'll ever see another war like that, a few bombs and it will all be over....

can't see what this has to do with exit (project fear?) but.....

DQdCLnqUQAA169E.jpg.74ecfea03378e5e315910dd4e0894a6a.jpg

:lol:

 

Edited by woody2
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4 minutes ago, BC1683 said:

Nato would not be able react fast enough if Russia moved in to Europe.. Nato ground troops would be over whelmed...

Why would Russia do that? Given the strategic balance of power. It would mean certain defeat.

Wars are won on economics. The larger economy will always win.

Edited by pongo
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6 hours ago, woody2 said:

well apart from the uk imports less food than it did in WW2 and produce more arms than ever......:lol:

 

I'm not sure that's correct Woody? We make lots of components but the supply chain is largely from outside the UK, we don't make complete aircraft, shipbuilding has almost had it, the steel industry is in freefall,  food imports seem to be much higher than WW2? We certainly couldn't feed ourselves.

I'm not suggesting that we are in imminent danger of attack and I think the Russians are the last people who would want to invade us. It's just a hypothetical question really. 

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The UK is on the list of the World's Most Powerful Militaries Ranking 6th:

And so long as the UK stays a member of Nato and Allies of the European Powers, I don't think the UK is under any Threat.   Especially if you have to get through France, Belgium, Netherlands and Germany to get at the UK.

And so long a America remains on the list of the UK's Closest Ally, the UK has nothing to worry about since it is no longer an Ambitious Expansionistic Power.

 

3X3

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We only have two aircraft carriers (one of those is a helo platform), the trained strength of the RAF would struggle to fill a decent sized football stadium, military bases are closing every year, there are more reserves in overseas theatres than any other year.

We currently are engaged in Iraq, Afghanistan (which lets face it are conflicts that are that old, they have become multi-generational) and Syria, plus god knows how many "advise and assist" jobs around the world.

The British Army saw a 31% drop in recruitment last year, with net retention decreasing every year across all the services.

Main line equipment is being made overseas, or parts for main line equipment is made overseas. 

While the men and women of the British Armed forces are some of the best in the world, there are not enough of them, trained and equipped for the "Cold War" era style of warfare of yesteryear.

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11 hours ago, Max Power said:

I'm not sure that's correct Woody? We make lots of components but the supply chain is largely from outside the UK, we don't make complete aircraft, shipbuilding has almost had it, the steel industry is in freefall,  food imports seem to be much higher than WW2? We certainly couldn't feed ourselves.

I'm not suggesting that we are in imminent danger of attack and I think the Russians are the last people who would want to invade us. It's just a hypothetical question really. 

all food      1956- 47% uk production          2013-60% uk production

indigenous food      1956- 61% uk production          2013-73% uk production

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The biggest threat would another sabre rattle from Argentina.

Maybe Russian economic reach, investments and ownerships around the world, including it's reach into America (unproven but there without doubt) would make any invasion/land grab unpopular with the real money in Russia, that could see their cash flow interrupted for decades to come?

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lt depends on the war.

Our independent nuclear deterrent means that any state player will calculate that all-out aggression against Britain will culminate in their destruction as well as ours (assuming that they, too, are a nuclear weapons state). If we relied solely on NATO, then an aggressor's calculation may be that the US would not sacrifice New York (say) in a nuclear escalation in response to an attack on Britain.  Hence the policy of an independent deterrent, and France's 'Force de Frappe'.

We have a significant Army, and could play a part in a war with Russia, say, in the Baltics, fighting as part of NATO.  Generally, we hold up our end in the NATO alliance pretty well. For example, we have just agreed to assist France with airlift facilities in Sahel against Islamist insurgents.

I seriously doubt, though, that we could fight something like the Falklands War now. The Royal Navy is just too small, although when the two carriers become fully operational, that might be rather more feasible, assuming we have enough frigates to defend them effectively. Right now, a sizeable proportion of the Navy's frigates are broken and tied up in Portsmouth.And also on the downside,  the Government are thinking of getting rid of two beach assault ships and running down the Marines.

The Royal Air Force has quite significant strike assets in the shape of Tornados, Eurofighter and GR4 Reaper. The Tornados will be replaced with F35s 48 of which will be shared between the RAF and the Navy.

I think that with a stronger Navy, we would be pretty well placed to defend ourselves from most threats as part of NATO. Or, of course, we could set about adapting to our reduced, post colonial, post EU role and adopt a less a less belligerent, less significant, role in the World.

Edited by guzzi
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