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Country Care Scheme. Could someone explain why they get the F*£"&*$ money


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Of course the island is never going to be self sufficient, lets not lose sight of the fact we are paying landowners taxpayers money for not producing anything, for merely looking after their own inter

The joke is subsidising farmers who then sell off-island.

I'm so glad that Gawney saved the island from 3rd World-type starvation. And could you imagine the embarrassment that he's saved the UK Govt too, from having the media streaming pictures into UK

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2 hours ago, woolley said:

It's origins are rooted in the EU - where else? They used to have subsidies for food production but that led to massive surpluses, beef and butter mountains, wine lakes etc. which was a bit of an embarrassment. The people getting the money were pretty important and powerful though, so they scratched their heads for a bit and came up with the brilliant solution of giving them the money anyway but not insisting on the agricultural production. Decoupling as they would call it. Voila! Problem solved. If we wanted to sell produce into Europe via Protocol 3 we had to follow this nonsense. But don't worry, it's only taxpayers' money.

The origins may have pretended to be rooted in the EU but that was just a silly Gawne excuse. It was only 10 years ago that this was silently shoe-horned into the Isle of Man.

24 minutes ago, pongo said:

 But the policy exists for sensible reasons.

Er, could you please explain those reasons?

I am aware there have been food riots in various third world countries, and oh..oh...those riots could possibly happen here. There is also some waffle about a melted butter mountain and blah, blah. There is also something about " we need food to live, farmers grow food, if they can't grow food then we die".

You are the Phil Gawne* and I claim my £5.

*Or Howard, or more likely his missus, she keeps an eye on the social media.  

Edited by gettafa
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I am glad that see that it is all for sensible reasons and not just down to personal favors and greed.  And I do not hate EU/Briton or any other country , Just realy cannot give a flying fuck about any of them we have our own millstones (and may I say hummunguss millstones) around our necks

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5 minutes ago, gettafa said:

could you please explain those reasons?

Sure I could. But I'm not going to. Because it's trivial to Google reasons for and against various versions of farming and land subsidies. And arguments for alternative ways of potentially achieving similar outcomes.

The problem with threads like these is that they feed into very predictable moans about imaginary elites - and the idea that, somehow, government is a con.

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6 hours ago, kevster said:

Lots of information on it HERE

Thanks for the links. I see Phil made a response for his own scheme.

The best laughs are in an early Tynwald Hansard  though (some detailed in another thread). Phil was in full bullshit mode. He was the darling of the chamber in those days and could apparently do no wrong. He picked his moment and the rest of Tynwald just went with it.

Howard of course was creaming himself. Alfie too, and the others of course. eg:

Mr Cannan: Mr President, Tynwald must at all times support the agricultural industry. It is part of our Island heritage. We have given it support over the years – as long as I have been here, and before that. It is very important........

Of course it is Alf. Of course it is.

So, as the motion was titled in Hansard: Manx agriculture – Supporting farmers and self-reliant food production – Report received and recommendations approved

Who could refuse that? No one, surely. It was approved unanimously in Keys and Council. Tynwald was in a happy mood that day.

But of course the proposed level of grants were not known at this stage, but hey, the first hurdle was well and truly jumped. 

The ratchet was set.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, pongo said:

Sure I could. But I'm not going to. Because it's trivial to Google reasons for and against various versions of farming and land subsidies. And arguments for alternative ways of potentially achieving similar outcomes.

The problem with threads like these is that they feed into very predictable moans about imaginary elites - and the idea that, somehow, government is a con.

Oh dear...where does one start.

I can't google your thoughts pongo. Please just state a justification for these grants on the Isle of Man. We'll take it from there.

If you like you can use Minister Phil Gawne's reasons (*sniggers*) in Hansard but, well you know how it is,...

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2 hours ago, pongo said:

lol at your sad and desperate attempt to shoehorn a made up anti - EU / anti imaginary-elites angle . The UK govt has confirmed that, in the UK, equivalent policy will continue despite Brexit. Because it's essentially not connected with the EU per se (only that EU countries effectively co-ordinate). You could argue for a better way of doing things, as many are doing in the EU. But the policy exists for sensible reasons.

 

1 hour ago, pongo said:

Sure I could. But I'm not going to. Because it's trivial to Google reasons for and against various versions of farming and land subsidies. And arguments for alternative ways of potentially achieving similar outcomes.

The problem with threads like these is that they feed into very predictable moans about imaginary elites - and the idea that, somehow, government is a con.

Whether it is liberal government, globalisation, multiculturism, Islamisation or the Common Agricultural Policy, I have reached the conclusion that you are the perfect citizen of the 21st century Western democracy. Totally credulous of any old tosh you are fed provided it comes through official sources.

"Essentially not connected with the EU.........."             Rubbish. It is entirely of the EU and moreover, totally typical of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Agricultural_Policy

https://archive.intereconomics.eu/year/2010/3/the-impact-of-eu-common-agricultural-policy-decoupling-on-farm-households-income-vs-investment-effec/

https://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/direct-support_en

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15 hours ago, pongo said:

lol at your sad and desperate attempt to shoehorn a made up anti - EU / anti imaginary-elites angle . The UK govt has confirmed that, in the UK, equivalent policy will continue despite Brexit. Because it's essentially not connected with the EU per se (only that EU countries effectively co-ordinate). You could argue for a better way of doing things, as many are doing in the EU. But the policy exists for sensible reasons.

But this is connected to the EU, and essentially .

Phil Gawne was wincing like a bastard that the Manx farmers (landowners) needed lots of money to be given to them to be able to compete with their EU (and UK) counterparts who receive lots of money from their Government.

Regarding the policy existing for "sensible reasons" please inform us. I am sure it will stimulate interesting debate. Yes, I understand the arguments and to an extent agree, but there needs to be justification for this scheme as it stands. I see very little of that.

Could I ask pongo, are you notwell's love child?

 

 

 

Edited by gettafa
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15 hours ago, gettafa said:

Thanks for the links. I see Phil made a response for his own scheme.

The best laughs are in an early Tynwald Hansard  though (some detailed in another thread). Phil was in full bullshit mode. He was the darling of the chamber in those days and could apparently do no wrong. He picked his moment and the rest of Tynwald just went with it.

Howard of course was creaming himself. Alfie too, and the others of course. eg:

Mr Cannan: Mr President, Tynwald must at all times support the agricultural industry. It is part of our Island heritage. We have given it support over the years – as long as I have been here, and before that. It is very important........

Of course it is Alf. Of course it is.

So, as the motion was titled in Hansard: Manx agriculture – Supporting farmers and self-reliant food production – Report received and recommendations approved

Who could refuse that? No one, surely. It was approved unanimously in Keys and Council. Tynwald was in a happy mood that day.

But of course the proposed level of grants were not known at this stage, but hey, the first hurdle was well and truly jumped. 

The ratchet was set.

 

 

Self-reliant food production? My arse.

As was said earlier in the thread, I doubt some landowners (I won't call them farmers) know which end the milk comes out of. There are exceptions of course but whenever I wander into the countryside I see nothing but empty fields. IOM must have one of the lowest harvest/acre rates anywhere. 

Successive governments have failed to heed the warning signs about food security and it's only a matter of time when a natural disaster or prolonged period of industrial action etc occurs that we will know the true extent of this self-reliance failed policy.

It's a national disgrace.

 

 

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20 hours ago, Dirty Buggane said:

Right after attempting to read and then make sense of information The Kevster pointed me to I am indeed sorry I asked. but still not sure why I am not allowed to know to whom and how much they recieved. The only hope is after brexit it will no longer need to be payed. I love the world I live in, with flying pigs and cotton candy clouds

talking about pigs.....

Government plans pig subsidy changes

http://www.three.fm/news/isle-of-man-news/government-plans-pig-subsidy-changes/

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3 hours ago, Donald Trumps said:

Scrap the country care scheme & use the money to trial a citizens income scheme to susidise folks to produce local fruit & veg

Create a few more allotments for people to rent and grow your own.

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4 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

Successive governments have failed to heed the warning signs about food security and it's only a matter of time when a natural disaster or prolonged period of industrial action etc occurs that we will know the true extent of this self-reliance failed policy.

It's a national disgrace.

Before WW1 almost 80% of British food was imported. Today less than 50%.

At a regional level, clearly the IOM  is not realistically going to be self sufficient. Ditto the Isle of Wight, Rutland etc.

ETA: personally I'm eating more local and hyper-local produce than ever. And I suspect many others would be in a similar position. That's despite or perhaps even because of increased choice. 

Edited by pongo
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