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joebean

Population Policy and yet more Thomas waffle

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1 minute ago, BallaDoc said:

It's all relative isn't it - you need to have the right amount of food and energy for the population which you have, otherwise it's out of balance.  I am uncomfortable with the fact that we import the vast majority of our food and energy, which puts us at the mercy of whoever controls the on/off switch.  You can't always assume that person will be benign.  We should be building more windmills on and around the island to generate more of our own electricity.  I know people don't like them because they spoil the view, but if it was a choice between windmills or no energy, I'd choose the windmills.

Wasn't that the reason behind building our own power station? And look what happened with that. And we still rely on the cable?

 

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We may generate our own energy at the power station but the source of it, gas, is all imported. Gas is a finite resource; more so if the anti-frackers prevail. We could be much more self-sufficient with our energy requirements, but that would involve vision and investment in a range of sustainable energy resources. Future energy needs are likely to be made up of a number of 10 percents, rather than a 100% reliance on one energy source, like gas. Perhaps Mr Thomas also has a fabulous, but as yet unwritten energy policy as well. Hurrah! We are saved! 

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46 minutes ago, BallaDoc said:

It's all relative isn't it - you need to have the right amount of food and energy for the population which you have, otherwise it's out of balance.  I am uncomfortable with the fact that we import the vast majority of our food and energy, which puts us at the mercy of whoever controls the on/off switch.  You can't always assume that person will be benign.  We should be building more windmills on and around the island to generate more of our own electricity.  I know people don't like them because they spoil the view, but if it was a choice between windmills or no energy, I'd choose the windmills.

which is why i said hydro......

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45 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Wasn't that the reason behind building our own power station? And look what happened with that. And we still rely on the cable?

 

no, that was a get rich quick scheme for the few......

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4 minutes ago, woody2 said:

which is why i said hydro......

I'm in favour of hydro in theory, but in practical terms on the IOM, where would the hydro come from?  I don't think we have a river on the island with a sufficient flow rate that we could build the equivalent of the Hoover Dam across it...?  Ditto for tidal energy, which as I understand it, works best if you can build a dam across a large tidal estuary but we don't have one of those either.  On the other hand, we have more wind than we know what to do with, so that would seem a more practical place to start.

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3 minutes ago, BallaDoc said:

I'm in favour of hydro in theory, but in practical terms on the IOM, where would the hydro come from?  I don't think we have a river on the island with a sufficient flow rate that we could build the equivalent of the Hoover Dam across it...?  Ditto for tidal energy, which as I understand it, works best if you can build a dam across a large tidal estuary but we don't have one of those either.  On the other hand, we have more wind than we know what to do with, so that would seem a more practical place to start.

man made lake, it doesn't need a great deal of drop, they can also use the spare electricity produced to pump water back up......

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5 minutes ago, BallaDoc said:

... but in practical terms on the IOM, where would the hydro come from? 

The flow rate through the Sound and its surrounding area is pretty fearsome, and constant. Tidal flow can be directed artificially by structure. Point of Ayre is another possible source. 

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6 minutes ago, woody2 said:

man made lake, it doesn't need a great deal of drop, they can also use the spare electricity produced to pump water back up......

Hang on, I think the laws of physics are inconveniently getting in the way here.  You can make a man made lake, sure, but that doesn't change the flow rate, and it's the flow which drives the turbines.  If you dam a river and create an artificial lake, you still have the same inflow and outflow of water because the watershed which collects the water is still the same, and the amount of rain is still the same.

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9 minutes ago, BallaDoc said:

Hang on, I think the laws of physics are inconveniently getting in the way here.  You can make a man made lake, sure, but that doesn't change the flow rate, and it's the flow which drives the turbines.  If you dam a river and create an artificial lake, you still have the same inflow and outflow of water because the watershed which collects the water is still the same, and the amount of rain is still the same.

small pipes and height of fall.....

Edited by woody2

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11 minutes ago, quilp said:

The flow rate through the Sound and its surrounding area is pretty fearsome, and constant. Tidal flow can be directed artificially by structure. Point of Ayre is another possible source. 

Yep. Always thought tidal is the way to go. The power of the tides around here is phenomenal and predictable. I think it should be encouraged by government as a sector we'd like to get involved in similar to e-tech, biotech, etc. I do think that Woody has a point too about hydro. Whatever we can make will help and we have no shortage of rain!

Economics gets in the way of course. They want to sweat the asset of the expensive, debt laden power station for as long as possible and make sure we all buy its wares. That trumps any innovative thinking.

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5 minutes ago, woolley said:

Yep. Always thought tidal is the way to go. The power of the tides around here is phenomenal and predictable. I think it should be encouraged by government as a sector we'd like to get involved in similar to e-tech, biotech, etc. I do think that Woody has a point too about hydro. Whatever we can make will help and we have no shortage of rain!

Economics gets in the way of course. They want to sweat the asset of the expensive, debt laden power station for as long as possible and make sure we all buy its wares. That trumps any innovative thinking.

Nail. On. Head. We're being held hostage to costly mistakes of the past which are preventing us from moving forwards. On a number of levels.

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Woody's damn idea doesn't hold water :lol:

There will always be times when water levels are low. So without the assistance or support of another power source...

 

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sloy.jpg.c9abbd437d51c73e972a8ab2987225a5.jpg

sloy has a drop of 200 metres, it also pumps water back up on low demand. it puts out 152mw and cost around £200m with near zero running costs....

pulrose puts out 135mw, it cost to build £???m and running costs are £???m....

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7 minutes ago, quilp said:

Woody's damn idea doesn't hold water :lol:

There will always be times when water levels are low. So without the assistance or support of another power source...

 

build a bigger lake:lol: you can also pump back up during low demand.....

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2 hours ago, joebean said:

We may generate our own energy at the power station but the source of it, gas, is all imported. Gas is a finite resource; more so if the anti-frackers prevail. We could be much more self-sufficient with our energy requirements, but that would involve vision and investment in a range of sustainable energy resources. Future energy needs are likely to be made up of a number of 10 percents, rather than a 100% reliance on one energy source, like gas. Perhaps Mr Thomas also has a fabulous, but as yet unwritten energy policy as well. Hurrah! We are saved! 

Creating renewable energy infrastructure is the basis of most successful 21st century economies. The fact that IOMG just can't be arsed is indicative of the level of idiocy we have in charge round here

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