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joebean

Population Policy and yet more Thomas waffle

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1 hour ago, woolley said:

They want to sweat the asset of the expensive, debt laden power station for as long as possible and make sure we all buy its wares. That trumps any innovative thinking.

The familiar implication here is that the reason we don't have tidal power today is because of a conspiracy of vested interests working against innovation.

But successful tidal power projects are rare. It's a nascent technology. Perhaps one day we have tidal power. But better to sensibly wait until it can be bought off the shelf. Imagine the risk of investing badly early.

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35 minutes ago, pongo said:

The familiar implication here is that the reason we don't have tidal power today is because of a conspiracy of vested interests working against innovation.

But successful tidal power projects are rare. It's a nascent technology. Perhaps one day we have tidal power. But better to sensibly wait until it can be bought off the shelf. Imagine the risk of investing badly early.

It would certainly light up Manxforums anyway! I'm not sure there would be any ramifications for those making the decision to run with it though!

Edited by Max Power

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2 hours ago, pongo said:

The familiar implication here is that the reason we don't have tidal power today is because of a conspiracy of vested interests working against innovation.

But successful tidal power projects are rare. It's a nascent technology. Perhaps one day we have tidal power. But better to sensibly wait until it can be bought off the shelf. Imagine the risk of investing badly early.

I don't think it is in dispute that they want to sweat the asset of the power station for as long as possible. They have said as much. They need to get the most they can out of it to balance the books as near as possible. That isn't a conspiracy theory or even controversial.

I only suggest that it would be a better use of some seed capital to encourage private interests to set up here than some of the classic wastes of money we have seen in the past two decades. What a grim state of affairs for humanity if nobody will do anything until they can buy it off the shelf.

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Agreed Woolley

The currents at the Sound and Point of Ayre are incredibly strong so much power can be taken from them. If an organisation which is at the cutting edge can develop the techniques on the IOM we could establish ourselves a world hub in the new technology and get some free leccy in the process.

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so a wall across to the sound with turbines in, it would work the same way as a dam so not new technology....

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6 hours ago, quilp said:

The flow rate through the Sound and its surrounding area is pretty fearsome, and constant. Tidal flow can be directed artificially by structure. Point of Ayre is another possible source. 

 

energy-production-tidal-oceade-technology_02.jpg

energy-production-tidal-waves-generated-electricity_01.jpg

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57 minutes ago, Donald Trumps said:

Suggested 200 years ago

Still no action

They've voted themselves a few payrises in that time though.....

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3 hours ago, Donald Trumps said:

Suggested 200 years ago

Still no action

Now that is the trouble with you English people, always rushing at things.

We prefer to take our time and think these things through before we make a complete bollocks of it. :)

( for "before" read "then" )

Edited by dilligaf
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14 hours ago, dilligaf said:

Now that is the trouble with you English people, always rushing at things.

We prefer to take our time and think these things through before we make a complete bollocks of it. :)

( for "before" read "then" )

I'm dead Manx me

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On 4/25/2018 at 6:03 PM, BallaDoc said:

Everyone is tiptoeing around the obvious question "what should be the ideal population of the IOM?" for fear of offending one faction or another by giving the wrong answer.  So here's my answer: approximately 20,000.  I arrived at this figure by estimating what population the island could support if it had to rely on food produced here to feed the population which lives here.  Just before the Industrial Revolution the population of the island was 27,000, which is the 1792 figure from this table:

http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/history/pop.htm

As transport of people and goods in those days was more difficult and expensive than today, it's a fair bet that those 27,000 were fed mostly by the farmers and fishermen of the island, although of course there would also have been some imported and exported produce.  If the island had to support itself from its own resources today, it probably couldn't support that number, because the herring fishery, which was an important source of food in those days, has collapsed due to over-fishing.  So I think 20,000 would be a reasonable ballpark figure.

Today's population of 84,000 is environmentally unsustainable, based as it is on a lot of people working in financial services, tourism and online gaming, producing non edible and what you might call rather ephemeral products.  These provide the revenue to enable a large amount of food to be imported, to sustain a population which under normal circumstances couldn't feed itself - a bit like the inflated populations of oil-rich Middle East countries which are going to deflate rather quickly when the oil goes away. 

 

On 4/26/2018 at 10:45 AM, joebean said:

We may generate our own energy at the power station but the source of it, gas, is all imported. Gas is a finite resource; more so if the anti-frackers prevail. We could be much more self-sufficient with our energy requirements, but that would involve vision and investment in a range of sustainable energy resources. Future energy needs are likely to be made up of a number of 10 percents, rather than a 100% reliance on one energy source, like gas. Perhaps Mr Thomas also has a fabulous, but as yet unwritten energy policy as well. Hurrah! We are saved! 

I don't think that there is an easy answer to this. We live in a sophisticated world compared to a few years ago and people have huge expectations of the services they want to receive both from government and private suppliers. These all cost money to provide and if we had fewer people, they would simply be over taxed to provide them. Businesses on the island struggle to keep ahead in view of there not being enough people to support investment, we have health and education to provide and without a critical number paying for this, we would simply offer a very basic service, as was available in the early 20th century.  I personally think we need another 20,000 working residents to make us viable and to create jobs, but then we need increased capacity in housing, health, education etc etc. It's like balancing a set of scales.  

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On 26/04/2018 at 8:50 AM, woody2 said:

population isn't a problem, food and energy is. 98% of energy is imported:o that's going to hurt in the long term, build a hydro system and large glass houses now......

I agree with this

Green/renewable energy is key to 21st economy development - govt should be initiating a variety of hydro & tidal energy schemes now, as well as promoting glass house development for local fruit & veg

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On 26/04/2018 at 4:09 PM, NoTail said:

Agreed Woolley

The currents at the Sound and Point of Ayre are incredibly strong so much power can be taken from them. If an organisation which is at the cutting edge can develop the techniques on the IOM we could establish ourselves a world hub in the new technology and get some free leccy in the process.

Trouble is strong currents will make PM's tricky. Plus if one goes out in winter repairing it could take a while.

You would also need other facilities kept in top condition for slack water.

Two or three of these https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/01/plans-for-worlds-largest-and-most-powerful-offshore-wind-turbine-unveiled.html 

south-west of the Calf would do nicely. Although not so big. Maybe 3 at 8mw would give enough slack for PM's. You would still need your backstops of course.

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Unless every family add to the ballance of trade then every additional family will make an already had situation worse.

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