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Steam Packet to be sold

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1 hour ago, Donald Trumps said:

Travelling times of two & a half hours or less are thought to greatly increase the number of people willing to travel to visit

Source?

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4 minutes ago, Grounds Keeper Willy said:

It’s common sense. 

Let's see what Donald says.

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1 hour ago, Donald Trumps said:

Travelling times of two & a half hours or less are thought to greatly increase the number of people willing to travel to visit

But they use twice as much fuel, so fares are proportionately higher, which has the converse effect. 

Steam Packet have reduced speed, and increased travel time so it’s taking 3 hours for the fast craft to Liverpool.

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20 minutes ago, John Wright said:

But they use twice as much fuel, so fares are proportionately higher, which has the converse effect. 

Steam Packet have reduced speed, and increased travel time so it’s taking 3 hours for the fast craft to Liverpool.

They're not pulling the old "duff gearbox" ruse again are they?

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6 hours ago, Donald Trumps said:

You have to wonder if it's normal practice for government to present initial costings for development projects on the low side to Tynwald so as not to shock the paying public

Shabby politics if it proves to be the case

That's the way. You can't really get away with it in the private sector. The estimators will soon lose their jobs and/or shareholders/owners will kick up a fuss. There'll certainly be no golden guaranteed promotions.

Playing with other people's money is clearly easy and just a big well paid game.

I wonder at what stage will the Steam Packet and Liverpool Landing Stage be added to the list of IRIS, New Hospital, MEA, Government Buildings etc.

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You'd lose your job in nano-seconds if you did that to a project board & embarrassed them in front of main board directors

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I wonder when the SPCo will introduce senior fares for travel, it must be one of the very few services without a senior fare rate

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1 hour ago, Tempus Fugit said:

I wonder when the SPCo will introduce senior fares for travel, it must be one of the very few services without a senior fare rate

Why do people deserve a discount just for being old?

 

There is a very real danger if this happening. It will only take a few too many granny farming members of Tynwald (eg the Honourable member for Onchan) to put pressure on for blue rinse discounts and it may well happen! 

 

What we need are affordable fares for everyone - tourists and residents (no matter what their age) - while still being able to pay off the debt and fund a couple of new boats. Being able to escape the rock once a year does anyone the world of good! 

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On ‎7‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 6:48 PM, gettafa said:

That's the way. You can't really get away with it in the private sector. The estimators will soon lose their jobs and/or shareholders/owners will kick up a fuss. There'll certainly be no golden guaranteed promotions.

Playing with other people's money is clearly easy and just a big well paid game.

I wonder at what stage will the Steam Packet and Liverpool Landing Stage be added to the list of IRIS, New Hospital, MEA, Government Buildings etc.

Stupid boy.

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2 hours ago, foxdaleliberationfront said:

Why do people deserve a discount just for being old?

[...] What we need are affordable fares for everyone - tourists and residents (no matter what their age) - while still being able to pay off the debt and fund a couple of new boats. Being able to escape the rock once a year does anyone the world of good! 

Well that's true of course, but it's actually not a bad idea if you look at it as a piece of marketing.  If you can get people to make trips that they wouldn't otherwise, then it's worth giving them a discount so that you're getting something out of them rather than nothing.  And the retired have flexibility about when they travel, so if you can get them to take up space that would be empty than that's great.

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2 hours ago, foxdaleliberationfront said:

Why do people deserve a discount just for being old?

 

There is a very real danger if this happening. It will only take a few too many granny farming members of Tynwald (eg the Honourable member for Onchan) to put pressure on for blue rinse discounts and it may well happen! 

 

What we need are affordable fares for everyone - tourists and residents (no matter what their age) - while still being able to pay off the debt and fund a couple of new boats. Being able to escape the rock once a year does anyone the world of good! 

You, like us all, will be old one day. Get a grip of yourself and face reality.

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6 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Well that's true of course, but it's actually not a bad idea if you look at it as a piece of marketing.  If you can get people to make trips that they wouldn't otherwise, then it's worth giving them a discount so that you're getting something out of them rather than nothing.  And the retired have flexibility about when they travel, so if you can get them to take up space that would be empty than that's great.

Or we could just offer affordable fares to everyone and get the maximum benefit out of everyone travelling.... 

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1 hour ago, foxdaleliberationfront said:

Or we could just offer affordable fares to everyone and get the maximum benefit out of everyone travelling.... 

I don’t favour direct subsidies for any group. Possibly student and pensioner discounts on off peak.

In the 1960’s the IoMG did subsidise shoulder period mid week return boat fares from UK in April/May and September, to try and extend the season.

Cant do it today, for competition reasons.

Fares in 2019 are lower in real terms ( both discount and full ) than they were in 1976-1979. They’re also much lower as a percentage of earnings.

We have more sailings a year despite having 2 boats rather than 6.

Our problem is the bulges in demand as opposed to supply. TT, half terms, Xmas. 

Our other problem is that, just as with public transport, busses and trains, and airports, we have to work out the benefit against cost of essential national infrastructure and services, lifelines,  and decide if user or tax payer should pay, or what the division should be.

Steam Packet needs 2 new boats, £120m. We are getting a new £38m Liverpool terminal. The airport loses £3m and that doesn’t include the cost of capital employed. The capital cost of harbours isn’t factored in, but there’s been a big redevelopment authorised, even ignoring the cruise liner berth dream.

With Liverpool terminal no one has looked at the capital and revenue ongoing cost. Assuming the linkspan and terminal are replaced every 25 years it’s about £15 per return passenger journey at constant prices.. So we subsidise already. A choice has been made, Liverpool and Heysham. Concentrating on Heysham and spending £5m on a terminal upgrade might have been better value.

Unless the taxpayer is to pay for, and own, the new boats, fares can’t be reduced.

Buses, we have to decide whether to continue current subsidy levels, or as part of climate change tackling, to make it free for all. 75% of operating cost is subsidy, 25% is fare income.

Airport, we seem to be subsidising every return passenger by  £8 in revenue terms, and that ignores capital costs of RESA, new radar, runway repairs, etc.

The recent admission that the airport costs are opaque, intertwined with harbours, means that harbours costs are also opaque.

Im happy for essential national infrastructure capital cost to be tax payer funded and costs not fully recovered by users. I’m not so sure about revenue. There’s got to be good political reasons, spin off benefits. That could justify free buses, I’m not sure it justifies sea and air fare discounts.

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You make some good points John. We should be offering everyone the best value fares possible while not jeopardising the future ability of the Packet to invest in new vessels and pay off the debt. 

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