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Steam Packet to be sold

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On 7/13/2019 at 6:05 PM, Bobbie Bobster said:

Source?

I think it was Terry Toohey who came out with this on the IOM, but it is a tourism industry accepted rule I believe

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1 hour ago, John Wright said:

With Liverpool terminal no one has looked at the capital and revenue ongoing cost. Assuming the linkspan and terminal are replaced every 25 years it’s about £15 per return passenger journey at constant prices.. So we subsidise already. A choice has been made, Liverpool and Heysham. Concentrating on Heysham and spending £5m on a terminal upgrade might have been better value.

With the opening of the M6 spur road travelling from north of M-town on the M62 we now much prefer Heysham than Liverpool. It's pretty much stress free especially for a morning sailing. Plus the meagre "services" offered at Heysham are a lot better than Liverpool. Which isn't saying much.....

But it's a bit like JW wanting an overnight to Liverpool with cabins which is ideal  for an onward, motorised, journey south - it doesn't suit everyone! Heysham is very badly served by public transport.

Basically it's dictated to by simple geography.

Incidentally the fares from Heysham should always be cheaper than Liverpool because of the lower cost of the sailing.

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Heysham port is badly served by public transport - you can walk up the hill to the village & get a bus fairly easily, tho' carrying a bag isn't great

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1 hour ago, P.K. said:

With the opening of the M6 spur road travelling from north of M-town on the M62 we now much prefer Heysham than Liverpool. It's pretty much stress free especially for a morning sailing. Plus the meagre "services" offered at Heysham are a lot better than Liverpool. Which isn't saying much.....

But it's a bit like JW wanting an overnight to Liverpool with cabins which is ideal  for an onward, motorised, journey south - it doesn't suit everyone! Heysham is very badly served by public transport.

Basically it's dictated to by simple geography.

Incidentally the fares from Heysham should always be cheaper than Liverpool because of the lower cost of the sailing.

I wonder how much Stagecoach would want as subsidy to extend their existing service that terminates at Trumacar Lane so it carries on half a mile to Heysham Harbour to drop off and pick up after sailings. 2 or 4 services a day?

That £37 mill could have been so much better spent.

i do agree that fares should take account distance, sailing length, and speed, as well as load/demand factors.

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2 hours ago, Donald Trumps said:

Scottish government offers subsidy to CalMac, which includes fares subsidy it would appear - tho' detail has not been made available

https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-17-02545/

Figures are available in CalMac Operations accounts.

Its 50% of all fare income. Plus the Scottish Executive own and build the boats, through Cal Mac Assets, so no capital costs.

The latest 2 boats, 125 metres, are 18 months behind schedule and 100% cost over run, so far.

The way Scottish Island services work is that they’re put out to Franchise by tender for management and service delivery to the company that says it can do it for the least subsidy.

Incumbent has an inbuilt advantage.

NorthLink was awarded to another company a few years ago, but ran into trouble and is back with CalMac, in effect.

cheap fares, at great cost to tax payers.

The Scottish Executive also owns all ports and harbour facilities. Charge to CalMac to use is negligible.

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10 hours ago, Donald Trumps said:Scottish government offers subsidy to CalMac, which includes fares subsidy it would appear - tho' detail has not been made available

https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-17-02545/

Here are the 2018 accounts.

https://www.calmac.co.uk/media/5216/CalMac-Ferries-Ltd-Directors-Report-and-Financial-Statement-Year-Ended-31-March-2018/pdf/CalMac_Ferries_Ltd_Directors_Report_and_Financial_Statement_Year_Ended_31_March_2018.pdf?m=1544632798950

 

Sales ( tickets and subsidy ) were £192m 2016/7 and £206m in 2017/8.

The latest subsidy figure is 2016/7 and is £132m, so it’s 60%.

£1billion over 8 years of the operating contract. And that’s income.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-17-02545/

capital costs are separate, as the boats are bought, paid for and owned by CalMar Assets.

Read about the mess their latest order is in 

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands/1735122/anger-over-fresh-delay-to-calmac-ferries/

Glen Sannox was due to commence service in 2018. Delivery is not now anticipated until late summer 2020.

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21 hours ago, dilligaf said:

You, like us all, will be old one day. Get a grip of yourself and face reality.

Doesn’t by default mean you deserve a discount. In fact they should be paying more.

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What is the competition law that limits IOMSPC capacity to offer discount fares in shoulder periods?

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38 minutes ago, Donald Trumps said:

What is the competition law that limits IOMSPC capacity to offer discount fares in shoulder periods?

What, the late 1980s?

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13 hours ago, Gizo said:

Doesn’t by default mean you deserve a discount. In fact they should be paying more.

Sadly the post by dilligaf is symptomatic of the sense of entitlement that many of the now aging baby boomer generation now feel. 

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2 hours ago, Donald Trumps said:

What is the competition law that limits IOMSPC capacity to offer discount fares in shoulder periods?

There isn’t one, as long as the discount applies to everyone. In fact discounting is written into, and guaranteed by, the user agreement.

no reason, either, in law, why specific groups, students or pensioners, can’t be targeted. Or frequent sailors.

What I very carefully explained, about the 1960’s, was that the discount was funded by government and only applied to midweek return tickets starting off Island, ie to attract tourists. That would almost certainly be against competition law. Strangely, almost contrarily, a residents discount card wouldn’t be.

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16 minutes ago, John Wright said:

There isn’t one, as long as the discount applies to everyone. In fact discounting is written into, and guaranteed by, the user agreement.

no reason, either, in law, why specific groups, students or pensioners, can’t be targeted. Or frequent sailors.

What I very carefully explained, about the 1960’s, was that the discount was funded by government and only applied to midweek return tickets starting off Island, ie to attract tourists. That would almost certainly be against competition law. Strangely, almost contrarily, a residents discount card wouldn’t be.

why strangely? Surely being a rate/tax payer it is not above probability that there would be an odd perk here and there. Onchan residents get a discount to amenities in Onchan Park I believe.

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On 7/13/2019 at 11:12 AM, Non-Believer said:

There is talk John (and admittedly that's all it is at the moment) that some sort of ground/land contamination issue has been discovered and is now going to have to be dealt with.

Peel aren't building as far as I know either. But they've done extremely well out of it to date. The Packet paid for the repairs to extend the life of the PP landing stage (doubtless over a barrel). Then PP were going to contribute £15M. Now IoMG have bought the land and are funding the whole shebang.

Like I said. £100M by the time it's finished. 

I go for £65m. Shall we have a sweep? Should have written off Liverpool altogether. Unless of course Peel want to provide the facilities and collect harbour dues in the traditional way. Perhaps they'd like us to redevelop Heysham Harbour terminal too. It could certainly do with it. 

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3 hours ago, foxdaleliberationfront said:

Sadly the post by dilligaf is symptomatic of the sense of entitlement that many of the now aging baby boomer generation now feel. 

The boomer generation don't NOW feel entitlement. They always have. It comes from post-war indulgence as children, solid home loans as young adults repaid with confetti due to rampant inflation enabling them to build substantial equity and easy pensions drawn for far longer than projected. Totally unfair on the young.  

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