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craggy_steve

Steam Packet to be sold

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Is going from costing nothing in terms of taxpayers money, to over 30 million classed as a budget overrun ? LOL I agree with the poster on here http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=43129&headline=Liverpool deal took longer than expected says Chief Minister&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2018

Somehow as they describe its gone from 15 million from Peel Ports to over 30 million from us ?

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1 hour ago, asitis said:

Is going from costing nothing in terms of taxpayers money, to over 30 million classed as a budget overrun ? LOL I agree with the poster on here http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=43129&headline=Liverpool deal took longer than expected says Chief Minister&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2018

Somehow as they describe its gone from 15 million from Peel Ports to over 30 million from us ?

You’re just picking, and (mis)quoting, and taking out of context and comparing apples with oranges.

2015, Peel Ports say they’ll build a new terminal for £15 million. They’d then either lease to Steam Packet, say 21 years, or operate and charge per sailing/passenger. No long term security, no guarantee it would be suitable or offer alternative freight in emergencies.

2016 IoMG says it’s going to buy land for £3.5 million on which to build its own terminal. It’s just completed, at that price. 195 year Long leasehold, so guaranteeing long term acces. The £3.5 never included building costs of a linkspan, waiting area, check in area, vehicle marshalling area or a link road.

2018. We now have lease, Liverpool are paying the £7.6 million roadway link. IoMG have to design and build the rest. It’s not clear when it will complete. Current lease on landing stage ends late 2019, we don’t sail there November to March, so no worries to Easter 2020. Assuming that Liverpool do boot Iomspco off rather than allow operations to continue through summer season 2020 by staging the construction of the extended cruise terminal that’s one season of sailings, say 200 max, affected.

Ive always understood the development cost was £30 million. Is the alleged over-run just sloppy journalism?

Mayor Joe has hinted Liverpool will want to accommodate.

My worry is the charging mechanism, and operating mechanism, by which the IoMG will get a return on its investment without crippling passenger fares on the Liverpool route. I don’t think IoMG has any business operating a Port facility in the UK.

Im also concerned with the crystal ball forward planning that suggests we need a 195 year tie in, anywhere.

Edited by John Wright
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Forget my misquoting, picking ,taking out of context, if thats how you see it  ..............

We are spending another 30 + million, which in reality we don't have, on a facility in the UK which even you John don't think is a good idea !

Whilst public services here go to hell, we seem hell bent on throwing money at the ferry service as fast as we possibly can ! 

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Cue the usual culprits, who will claim that John Whittaker is the Devil incarnate.

My thought is - I wish that I had his business acumen, and had been able to amass his fortune.

 

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18 minutes ago, Gee Cee said:

Cue the usual culprits, who will claim that John Whittaker is the Devil incarnate.

My thought is - I wish that I had his business acumen, and had been able to amass his fortune.

 

Why? What's the point in having that much money, other than ego? 

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2 hours ago, Gee Cee said:

Cue the usual culprits, who will claim that John Whittaker is the Devil incarnate.

My thought is - I wish that I had his business acumen, and had been able to amass his fortune.

 

Convincing the taxpayer to part with huge sums of money to build a development and then lease it back to them seems a tad disingenuous to me. Nothing particularly clever about that other than a reliance on friends in high places to make sure the deals happen.

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2 hours ago, Gee Cee said:

Cue the usual culprits, who will claim that John Whittaker is the Devil incarnate.

My thought is - I wish that I had his business acumen, and had been able to amass his fortune.

 

The government amassed his fortune or a similar one, only difference is they wasted it !!!!

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1 hour ago, the stinking enigma said:

I'd build it for free if i was him. My gift to the nation.

He’s not a nice person so not likely to happen 

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On 9/16/2018 at 9:41 AM, John Wright said:

I’ve got 6 ferry trips between now and end October, 4 ferry companies, 90 hours and 5 different ferries.

Steam Packet to Heysham return

Brittany Ferries Portsmouth to Santander

Grandi Navi Veloci Barcelona to Genoa

Minoan Line Ancona to Igoumenitsa and Igoumenitsa to Venice

possibly a couple of Greek Island ferry trips Kavala to Thassos and a ferry across the Danube between Romania and Bulgaria at Svishtov.

ill try and report back.

Said I’d report back.

24/9 standard Steam Packet morning crossing to Heysham, me, Paul and dogs. Pet friendly cabin. Priority boarding ( executive club)  Parked near lift ( currently wheel chair user ). Once on a deck, and at sea, I can’t change decks because the lift is switched off. Couldn’t get to shop or cafe. Nothing remarkable. 3 hours 45 mins. Cost £230.

25/9 Brittany Ferries Pont Aven to Santander. Parked by wheel chair friendly entrance to car deck. Assistance getting chair in and out of car. Dogs in pet kennels as no Pet friendly cabins. Boat 10 years old but smart. Lifts work at sea. Able to access restaurant, cafe, shop, duty free and bars. 24 hours. Cost £590. But cheaper than eurotunnel, fuel and tolls through France and a night in an hotel. As going to Barcelona we had a 6 hour drive rather than a 15 hour drive. And now we have a teltac device fitted to the car we can go through the T lane on Spanish and French motorways. No stopping. Just drive through at 30kph.

10/10 GNV Excellent from Barcelona to Genoa. Odd check in. Presented e-mail, exchanged for voucher, then after boarding, queue for cabin key. Pet friendly cabin. Disabled parking. All areas accessible. Officers Italian, crew Philpino and Chinese. Recipe for another disaster. Restaurant terrible. At launch, 20 years ago,  the Excellent was the largest cruise ferry in Europe. It sails, along with sister ship Excelsior, Tangier Barcelona Genoa return two complete rotations a week. 18 hours, £350. Saves 1000km. Disembarkation a nightmare 3 hours for customs and immigration as North Africans who are booked through to Genoa don’t do immigration control at Barcelona. Boat clapped out. Like the Ben it has trouble manoeuvring in harbour in high wind. This is 1/11 in Barcelona, a big harbour.

12/10 Cruise Olympia Ancona to Igoumenitsa. Best of the lot. 10 years old. Fully accessible. Marked disabled parking giving priority boarding and disembarkation. Along with sister ship Cruise Europa she’s the biggest cruise ferry in Europe. On check in you get your cabin key. Pet cabin. Good open decks. 2.5 hours delay departing. Good restaurants, bars. People sleeping on open deck. The sail between Corfu and the Greek mainland arriving into Igoumenitsa is spectacular. No WiFi. Inmarsat mobile phone at ruinous rates. 20 hours. £400

27/10 Cruise Europa in reverse. They haven’t the facilities in Igoumenitsa to issue cabin keys ( swipe cards ) at check in. 

Whilst in Greece and Bulgaria went on Kavala to Thassos return and Svishtov ferry across Danube. Thassos was €45 for 30 minutes. Open deck with ramp at each end. Stay in car. Svisthtov was in an industrial wasteland, 15 minutes. 20lev ( about £8). Mainly freight from Turkey to join European motorway network. Saves TIR 6-8 hours over Vidin bridge. Odd barge like boat. Loads transversely. Load 1 HGV via ramp. Slide boat 10 feet forward, load next. Carries up to 8. Total bureaucratic customs and immigration system, even although in EU ( but not in Schengen ). You can’t pre book Thassos or Svishtov.

Came back to UK via Montblanc and Channel Tunnels. 

Digression. One of our dogs was taken ill. Various vets in different countries promised treatment and that she was well enough to continue. Last 48 hours she deteriorated fast and our objective became getting home, to our own vet or to allow her to die at home.

Final day we had a delayed departure from Reims due to vet visit and our rescheduled euroshuttle then ran late. Arrived Folkestone 6pm, instead of 1pm. Got on Motorway. Tyre blow out. Sourced replacement ( only got speed limited and distance limited skinny spare ) with 24/7 home call out service. Set off at 8pm. Roadworks on M20/25 junction with diversion. Same at M40/42. M5 had 5 miles of 20mph roadworks. M6 it’s usual mess but with added closure between J18-19 and long detour.

arrived Heysham at 01.55. Security gates still open, two lines of cars still waiting loading. Refused boarding. Watched as gates locked, final cars loaded, and Ben sailed.

Morecambe, found dog friendly hotel. Next morning transferred to 14.15 sailing. Dog died as we waited to board. Not the best ending. I know that I was late, we explained the position. No heart. So, jobsworths at Heysham, steam Packet and port employees, thank you for that. I know the outcome would have been no different, but at least we would have been at home.

RIP Zippy.

 

Edited by John Wright
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24 minutes ago, John Wright said:

RIP Zippy.

Sad to hear about your dog.

Some of the best and very worst customer service I've had has been the Steam Packet, also the most clueless at times.

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36 minutes ago, GD4ELI said:

Sad to hear about your dog.

Some of the best and very worst customer service I've had has been the Steam Packet, also the most clueless at times.

+1

im a strong supporter of the SPCo. My experiences of other ferries, and pragmatic realism, tells me it’s better than most and mainly delivers. 

Im annoyed just now, but I do understand check in cutt off time requirements.

CalMac - taxpayer owned and subsidised to the extent of 60% of revenue.

Brittany Ferries subsidised on the sly by the French. Expensive but providing a great service on the Western Channel and northern Spain routes. Only real problems I’ve had were a 40 hour sailing from Santander to Plymouth. So rough. And being trapped at Roscoff on one sailing going Portsmouth France Spain. They do it once a week to change crews and stock up. The crew went on strike.

Grand Navi Veloci is a spin off of Grimaldi who operate the Spain Italy and Italy Greece ( and many other routes ). No subsidy on most routes, but there are subsidies Sardinia to Italy, Corsica to France and Sicily to Italy and Greek mainland to Islands.

Grimaldi trans Adriatic routes seem to run between 2 and 3 hours late. I’ve done six crossings. None on time. Loading and disembarkation is precision engineered as the boat goes from Ancona to Igoumenitsa and then on to Patras ( for Athen ). Loading is destination specific. Unloading is unsupervised, every car driver for themselves, talking Greeks and Italians here. Much engine revving, open windows, screaming and gesticulation and use of horns. 

The Mediterranean and Adriatic sailings looked weak on H&S and Solas compliance. But all the boats were cleaner, and less rust pitted than the Ben.

Ive gone on Condor, P&O and Stena fairly recently. Condor is hated in Jersey & Guernsey even more than the Steam Packet is here.

P&O decidedly old fashioned boats. Stena making huge investment in super ferries, including for its own operation and to lease/charter to the likes of Brittany.

Edited by John Wright

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8 minutes ago, John Wright said:

im a strong supporter of the SPCo. My experiences of other ferries, and pragmatic realism, tells me it’s better than most and mainly delivers. 

Im annoyed just now, but I do understand check in cutt off time requirements.

 

Condolences in respect of Zippy, a very distressing conclusion to a nightmare journey. 

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