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Steam Packet to be sold

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

With respect, my points are being misunderstood. Three identical boats does not involve any greater capital cost - in fact it means less capital expenditure. 

The point about three identical boats (or whatever the final number is best calculated to be) indeed does not make sense unless you also include my second point - i.e. That you take a long-term (say 100 year) view. Never have I said that you buy all three at the outset - but you do decide on the overall deign at the outset.

"itd be better to wait until 2030 for boat 2 and 2040 for new boat three to keep steady turnover of tonnage, but neither SeaCat nor Ben will suit until 2030 so we are going for 2026/7 for boat 2."

The very fact the that 'we are going for 2026/7 for boat 2" rather than being in the position of being able to take the better option of "better to wait until 2030 for boat 2" demonstrates my point perfectly - why are we in this position in the first place? - Answer; Because short-term tactical decisions are having to be deployed to cover-up for the lack of long term strategical policy.

Time to switch on the HUD.

Thanks for the clarification. 

It might well be with some additional forethought we could slide into this sort of arrangement anyway, as the Ben will need replacing eventually, perhaps in the early 2030s (assuming she gets 10 years low utilisation and is well maintained). The Ben's replacement would then become the Ben's replacement again, assuming the Manannan's replacement is more or less the same as the Ben's and so on. Slip companies like Condor and Northlink into the equation (with different internal arrangements) and we could be onto something?

From my reading of the new user agreement, it's primarily there to secure the investment for new vessels to be built on the back of loans. So actually very similar to before. I guess they consider revising the agreement every time a new ship is ordered in order to lengthen it sufficiently to pay back the loan, so it's not a blind order. But as you say, this requires a level of thought above what is currently being implemented/suggested. 

I think my only quibble is with the speed; I think there really is a demand, particularly in the summer and during TT for the capability to run fast. How you build that in (and accept a fare/cost/efficiency penalty) is up to the government/SPC, but I guess a third engine to provide the extra power required (and you could spread the load across all three engines by only using two most of the time) or by having engines that can run relatively efficiently in two different modes? Perhaps a question too far...

Edited by AlexMcC

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1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

I've driven the A75 Stranraer/Kirkcudbright/Carlisle road on quite a few occasions. It's a nightmare. And goes on forever.

Non starter as a major road link for IoM.

Yes, I have that Tshirt and baseball cap as well. God awful unless you're on a motoring holiday around Galloway and Ayrshire

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20 hours ago, LightBulb said:

M74 - M6

Do  you work for the DoI by any chance...

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https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/manannan-to-resume-liverpool-sailings/

If, as we were told, the company was to be run at arms length from the government, why is Harmer being interviewed  about this and  stating that fares will now be more contained under the governments enlightened rule?.

It is not as if his department is a shining light in efficiency and good business practice.

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12 hours ago, ellanvannin2010 said:

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/manannan-to-resume-liverpool-sailings/

If, as we were told, the company was to be run at arms length from the government, why is Harmer being interviewed  about this and  stating that fares will now be more contained under the governments enlightened rule?.

It is not as if his department is a shining light in efficiency and good business practice.

Indeed. The whistle for the political football match has well and truly been blown.

And similarly of course the lobbying by the freight companies. Why didn't Harmer just simply say, sorry you have to talk direct with IOMSPCo, nothing to do with me.

COMIN has to make up it's mind how this is going move forward. They should simply agree the terms with IOMSPCo and then let IOMSPCo get on with it. All of this political interference at this early stage is storing up trouble. Every TD&H who thinks they are or have a special case in regard to fare reductions etc won't think twice about hammering on Harmer's door. 

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7 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Why didn't Harmer just simply say, sorry you have to talk direct with IOMSPCo, nothing to do with me.

You know why. Because none of these clowns can resist trumpeting that they’re “The Big I Am”. These reassurances that IOMSPC will be run at arms length from government are worthless.

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38 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Indeed. The whistle for the political football match has well and truly been blown.

And similarly of course the lobbying by the freight companies. Why didn't Harmer just simply say, sorry you have to talk direct with IOMSPCo, nothing to do with me.

COMIN has to make up it's mind how this is going move forward. They should simply agree the terms with IOMSPCo and then let IOMSPCo get on with it. All of this political interference at this early stage is storing up trouble. Every TD&H who thinks they are or have a special case in regard to fare reductions etc won't think twice about hammering on Harmer's door. 

Of course there’s a simple explanation, one not requiring a paranoid conspiracy theory, or attacking government.

Its because, owned by Treasury, or privately, DoE is the regulator, setting things like maximum price increases, percentage of discounted fares, minimum service levels. That’s its job.

So, quite appropriate. 

I accept it’ll be interesting to watch the tensions between owner and regulator.

Im hoping that Treasury will sell off a substantial part of its shareholding, keeping a proportion and a golden share, to raise funds. Probably once we have accurate costings for the new boats.

£70 million minimum for boats is clearly way out. 3 years ago IoMSPCo was quoting £120-30m, Condor, itself up for sale, serving the CI with the Bens sister, Clipper, and fast craft, and Arrow on sub sub lease on standby, still owned by a cash strapped, frozen, McQuarrie, infrastructure investment vehicle, and up for sale, is saying it needs to build 2 new boats for £120m. Not that it has any chance of raising the funds.

What we mustn’t get into is the mess of Guernsey/Alderney who own Aurigny airline,  which loses money hand over fist, and can’t even manage to agree future service levels, or subsidy, for the £3million a year loss on the Guernsey Alderney and Alderney UK lifeline routes. That’s £3 million loss after all fares paid to cover essential life line services.

We May complain about flybe/Virgin Red, patient transfers, easyJet, open skies, etc, but we are in a far better position than that.

Nor must we get into the mess of Scotland and CalMac, 100% cost over runs on two new boats, 12 month minimum delivery delays, and all paid for by the taxpayer, because boats are owned by state owned CalMac Assets and an annual operating subsidy of £140 million, and projected Public Service Operational Subsidy over its next 8 year franchise, of nearly £1billion.

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27 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Of course there’s a simple explanation, one not requiring a paranoid conspiracy theory, or attacking government.

Its because, owned by Treasury, or privately, DoE is the regulator, setting things like maximum price increases, percentage of discounted fares, minimum service levels. That’s its job.

So, quite appropriate. 

I accept it’ll be interesting to watch the tensions between owner and regulator.

Im hoping that Treasury will sell off a substantial part of its shareholding, keeping a proportion and a golden share, to raise funds. Probably once we have accurate costings for the new boats.

£70 million minimum for boats is clearly way out. 3 years ago IoMSPCo was quoting £120-30m, Condor, itself up for sale, serving the CI with the Bens sister, Clipper, and fast craft, and Arrow on sub sub lease on standby, still owned by a cash strapped, frozen, McQuarrie, infrastructure investment vehicle, and up for sale, is saying it needs to build 2 new boats for £120m. Not that it has any chance of raising the funds.

What we mustn’t get into is the mess of Guernsey/Alderney who own Aurigny airline,  which loses money hand over fist, and can’t even manage to agree future service levels, or subsidy, for the £3million a year loss on the Guernsey Alderney and Alderney UK lifeline routes. That’s £3 million loss after all fares paid to cover essential life line services.

We May complain about flybe/Virgin Red, patient transfers, easyJet, open skies, etc, but we are in a far better position than that.

Nor must we get into the mess of Scotland and CalMac, 100% cost over runs on two new boats, 12 month minimum delivery delays, and all paid for by the taxpayer, because boats are owned by state owned CalMac Assets and an annual operating subsidy of £140 million, and projected Public Service Operational Subsidy over its next 8 year franchise, of nearly £1billion.

Conspiracy doesn't come into it. It's matter of fact. And I'm perfectly entitled to hammer IOMG if I think they deserve it. 

Although the Heads of Agreement have been approved by Tynwald there's still work to do on finalising those terms before Tynwald approves them. In the meantime as the Regulator Harmer should be above talking about ticket prices until the Agreement is signed and sealed. There's nowt to regulate yet! There's been plenty of opportunity for all and sundry to have their two pennyworth. up to this point.

I don't necessarily disagree with the rest of what you have to say.

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Is there anything we can export in the empty containers that go back to the UK every day?

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24 minutes ago, Donald Trumps said:

Is there anything we can export in the empty containers that go back to the UK every day?

Rolls and rolls of best Manx Felt.

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3 hours ago, Donald Trumps said:

Is there anything we can export in the empty containers that go back to the UK every day?

Politicians.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

Rolls and rolls of best Manx Felt.

Don’t you dare export the roll of 1896 cross-nap, over-rub, double weave brushed Vermillion that’ll be the centrepiece of the Victorian Gallery in the Felt Museum!

Edited by Uhtred
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11 minutes ago, Uhtred said:

Don’t you dare export the roll of 1896 cross-nap, over-rub, double weave brushed Vermillion that’ll be the centrepiece of the Victorian Gallery in the Felt Museum!

Unless they get that damn mono rail built, nobody will get to the museum

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21 minutes ago, Uhtred said:

Don’t you dare export the roll of 1896 cross-nap, over-rub, double weave brushed Vermillion that’ll be the centrepiece of the Victorian Gallery in the Felt Museum!

With that sort of knowledge, you should apply for the curator's job.... :lol:

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