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Beneficial Register MPs visiting IOM

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Donald Trumps said:

'Spose they would say that is outside of the delegated powers

Not sure what the delegated powers specifically are but Jersey has used them once already 

https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2018/11/19/jersey-granted-permission-to-negotiate-trade-deal-with-uae/

The powers are called “entrustment” and they propose a traffic light system of good, less good, and don’t go there at all countries on a pre agreed list so really it isn’t entrustment at all. If we want to do a deal with what the U.K. thinks is a bad country we won’t be “entrusted” to do so. I believe letters have gone out now though with some sort of entrustment criteria in them. 

Edited by MrPB
Typo

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4 hours ago, enbee said:

Would this be the same Margaret Hodge by any chance?

https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tax/hmrc-policy/margaret-hodge-benefited-from-tax-haven

One rule for them, one rule for the rest of us.

Whilst Hodge may have benefited (greatly) from tax avoidance, that wasn't her doing and anyway was not wrongdoing.

What is much more troubling was her reprehensible behaviour when she chaired the UK's Public Accounts Committee, which showed her to be fundamentally unreasonable and borderline dishonest. She's a crook. We should take no lectures in integrity from her.

https://www.taxation.co.uk/Articles/2013-02-06-299031-tax-prat-year

 

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Yibble said:

Whilst Hodge may have benefited (greatly) from tax avoidance, that wasn't her doing and anyway was not wrongdoing.

What is much more troubling was her reprehensible behaviour when she chaired the UK's Public Accounts Committee, which showed her to be fundamentally unreasonable and borderline dishonest. She's a crook. We should take no lectures in integrity from her.

https://www.taxation.co.uk/Articles/2013-02-06-299031-tax-prat-year

 

That link looks dead. 

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1 hour ago, MrPB said:

That link looks dead. 

Try typing “Tax prat of the year” into Taxation home page. Article can be accessed by clicking on article of that name (dated 5 Feb 2013}  at bottom of search results.

Perfect example of M.P.s who grandstand, IMO.

Perhaps the UK could adopt the system tried by Sweden some time ago, where everyone’s tax records were publicly available. It would be a big exercise to bring this in, but they could start with M.P.s.......

 

 

 

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Someone's systems not up dated. I had telephone interview with DWP declaring sudden acquisition of many thousands. DWP  told HMRC I  had IOM bank account. I said no as I left IOM and as a UK resident am not allowed to have such an account which long since closed. A formal statement was read to me as regards an investigation and the interview had been recorded. Meanwhile Costa Coffee and Amazon take billions tax free...

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I get this false argument more now having just seen the BBC local politics programme on the IOM this morning. That silly cow from Christian Aid typifies most of the childish and selfish reasons behind all this pressure now. They just want the database open so they can send scrounging letters to the super rich sitting behind these companies because that’s all these scrounging, god bothering, tin-rattlers are interested in. Guilt tripping and cajoling people out of money so they can go and indoctrinate kids about space fairies under the pretense of providing aid. It’s just a tin rattlers and nosy parkers movement that seeks to remove the basic right to privacy people have if they are tax paying law abiding citizens.  

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Whatever it is, it looks like the Hodge/Mitchell amendment will be passed.

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1 hour ago, thesultanofsheight said:

I get this false argument more now having just seen the BBC local politics programme on the IOM this morning. That silly cow from Christian Aid typifies most of the childish and selfish reasons behind all this pressure now. They just want the database open so they can send scrounging letters to the super rich sitting behind these companies because that’s all these scrounging, god bothering, tin-rattlers are interested in. Guilt tripping and cajoling people out of money so they can go and indoctrinate kids about space fairies under the pretense of providing aid. It’s just a tin rattlers and nosy parkers movement that seeks to remove the basic right to privacy people have if they are tax paying law abiding citizens.  

That's a bit unfair on Christian Aid, which has always seemed more concerned about the aid than the Christianity.  Possibly because there are lot of different sorts of Christians involved and they'd be rowing about which particular brand line to push.  And in any case the sort of people who use these techniques to conceal their dosh are probably more guilty than guilt-ridden and so unlikely to be moved by appeals to their better instincts on the grounds they don't have any.

The BBC piece is only about 3 minutes long (from 18:20) and doesn't tell us anything new (is it just a cut-down of a longer piece broadcast earlier?).  But it was still full of fantasies of independence. But Tynwald-passed law will not over-ride Westminster ones, if there is a clash it will because the UK will have explicitly extended an Act to the Island and it will take precedence.  And of course the executive functions of the law - the Police and the Courts - owe their allegiance to the Crown and so to the UK.

The Island has been lucky in that previous UK governments have been happy to restrict themselves to making pious noises while politicians exploited the opportunities offered for their Parties or themselves.  Why do you think Cameron exempted trusts from offshore disclosure rules?  But such protection may not continue and Brexit may make the UK more vulnerable to pressure in any case.

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21 hours ago, Donald Trumps said:

The thing is IOMG has some sort of letter of authority from somebody in UK Gov giving us authority to make tax agreements with OECD & others - as I understand it

Not sure how Hodge & Mitchell can be permitted to attempt to legislate over this

I'd like a explanation please Roger Mexico

Basically delegation (which I presume is what is happening here) is an administrative matter and can only take place within the bounds set by legislation.  So if the legislation changes the powers which have been delegated are affected as well.   And even these sort of agreements are carried out under the Crown and I assume have to signed by the Governor or whoever.

Beneficial ownerships and the registers that list them are a matter of agreement between countries and so, in the end, a matter over which Westminster is fully entitled to intervene.  But in any case they have the ultimate sanction of imposing even local legislation is they feel like it - it's just that Tynwald usually does as it's told before things get to that point.

As we tend to have seen recently, the Manx Government seem to be handling the associated PR rather badly.  Quayle getting all indignant and spluttering "How very dare you!" may play well with the less perceptive inhabitants of Athol Street, but it's not going to look good among MPs or wider in the world.  They would be better emphasising the need for all jurisdictions to move together and continuing to point out the uselessness of moving to open registers if they are as notoriously inaccurate as the UK one.

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23 hours ago, Donald Trumps said:

Quite why we should pay a BBC licence fee for that sort of one sided programming is beyond me

you don't have to pay the licence fee for listening to the radio........

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You do if you have a telly

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13 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Basically delegation (which I presume is what is happening here) is an administrative matter and can only take place within the bounds set by legislation.  So if the legislation changes the powers which have been delegated are affected as well.   And even these sort of agreements are carried out under the Crown and I assume have to signed by the Governor or whoever.

Beneficial ownerships and the registers that list them are a matter of agreement between countries and so, in the end, a matter over which Westminster is fully entitled to intervene.  But in any case they have the ultimate sanction of imposing even local legislation is they feel like it - it's just that Tynwald usually does as it's told before things get to that point.

As we tend to have seen recently, the Manx Government seem to be handling the associated PR rather badly.  Quayle getting all indignant and spluttering "How very dare you!" may play well with the less perceptive inhabitants of Athol Street, but it's not going to look good among MPs or wider in the world.  They would be better emphasising the need for all jurisdictions to move together and continuing to point out the uselessness of moving to open registers if they are as notoriously inaccurate as the UK one.

Well written, thanks

At least Quayle has said that IOM will comply with EU requirments if we do not already

Jersey & Guernsey say they will not

Is OECD compliance different to EU compliance?

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1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

That's a bit unfair on Christian Aid, which has always seemed more concerned about the aid than the Christianity.  Possibly because there are lot of different sorts of Christians involved and they'd be rowing about which particular brand line to push.  And in any case the sort of people who use these techniques to conceal their dosh are probably more guilty than guilt-ridden and so unlikely to be moved by appeals to their better instincts on the grounds they don't have any.

I’m not feeling that charitable today and if I recall correctly that other idiot from Christian Aid was the one who participated in that last piece of documentary rubbish by the BBC that set out to trash the IOM. People have a right to privacy without the Christian brotherhood wishing to know who they are in order to send them begging pamphlets. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Donald Trumps said:

At least Quayle has said that IOM will comply with EU requirments if we do not already

The IOM always caves in first because of the VAT share. If they cut it off for a quarter on its share while we argued over this point IOMG would be screwed. 

Edited by thesultanofsheight

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23 hours ago, Donald Trumps said:

The thing is IOMG has some sort of letter of authority from somebody in UK Gov giving us authority to make tax agreements with OECD & others - as I understand it

Not sure how Hodge & Mitchell can be permitted to attempt to legislate over this

I'd like a explanation please Roger Mexico

UK gave IOM Letter of Entrustment to act internationally over matters of setting up agreements under the exchange of information plan of many years ago now which the Island would only then agree to joining if there was a "level playing field"..Same as now with the open register idea....

However so far as I know the Letter of Entrustment was for that one specific purpose. Before then the UK would have arranged international deals on the IOM's behalf. The Letter of Entrustment did not give the Island extra powers it was just being allowed to do the UK's work. The power associated with the Letter of Entrustment were UK powers delegated so now real change at the end of the day. I imagine another Letter or Letters of Entrustment would be needed for other specific purposes.

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