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hagar the horrible

Enterprise Development Scheme.

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It will all be covered by commercial confidentiality, so no way to find out. You do need to have schemes of this sort though, and they do bring benefits in the long term. I speak from experience in this. It can be a tipping point to have an enterprise come to your jurisdiction rather than another. Whether they would have done so regardless and whether the business would have been as successful with or without assistance will always remain moot points.

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27 minutes ago, woolley said:

It will all be covered by commercial confidentiality, so no way to find out. You do need to have schemes of this sort though, and they do bring benefits in the long term. I speak from experience in this. It can be a tipping point to have an enterprise come to your jurisdiction rather than another. Whether they would have done so regardless and whether the business would have been as successful with or without assistance will always remain moot points.

Why do we need schemes at all when we have zero tax & NI holidays (even that's a scheme)? Is that not incentive enough?

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On 1/23/2019 at 9:32 PM, craggy_steve said:

Actually that's not so true in the Isle of Man. Small independent charities abound, the ManxSPCA is an example with a couple of small shops, Crossroads Care has one, Manx Blind Welfare has one, Manx Wildlife Trust has one, the Hospice has several and the independent Peel Charity Shop raises money for a bundle of Manx charities.  Not an exhaustive list, I'm sure there will be some I've missed.

Yes some of the big UK charities have shops here, but many of the charity shops are manned by volunteers for small IoM charities.

This is an interesting article I wonder how IOM compares?

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2 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Why do we need schemes at all when we have zero tax & NI holidays (even that's a scheme)? Is that not incentive enough?

Forget about tax. There is zero tax everywhere until you make a profit and a high proportion of startups ultimately fail, often many, many years later. I'm looking at a company restructure now that has been in business for over 30 years, has provided massive employment but has never once turned a profit for the shareholders in all of that time. It has had government assistance on several occasions (grants/loans) but has repaid it a thousandfold in the payroll taxes remitted over the decades. That's the prize the authorities seek, as well as the obvious one of gainful employment for their people.

It's a competitive situation throughout Europe. I can go to any jurisdiction in a development zone, give my pitch for a new (or relocating) venture, and see what they will offer me.

https://tradeandinvest.wales/why-wales/10-reasons

http://www.hie.co.uk/about-hie/where-we-re-investing/default.html

http://www.thenorthwestfund.co.uk/about-the-fund/

http://www.neeal.co.uk/

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/finance-funding/getting-funding/access-finance/index_en.htm

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2 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

And now it seems the EDS has created 1000 new jobs. Does anyone believe any of this shit?

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/enterprise-schemes-pay-out-11-2m-to-create-jobs/

Every one of them in DfE itself.

But something has to justify Skelly's cabal.

Edited by Non-Believer
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2 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

And now it seems the EDS has created 1000 new jobs. Does anyone believe any of this shit?

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/enterprise-schemes-pay-out-11-2m-to-create-jobs/

I certainly don’t believe anything that comes from the Starship Enterprise and the only thing coming out of Minister Skellys mouth is verbal diarrhoea, 

its rather suspicious that press releases like this are released on a Sunday or Weekend, and drip fed on the Nations Propaganda Mouthpiece, on the day that TT practice is supposed to begin. 

After all who in all honesty will query these statistics? Skelly? Callister? Spin, Spin and Bullshit. Incidentally how many jobs created.in the VIP tent or up at the Handstand as the TT is ever so prosperous? Lots of minimum wage work and long hard slog I bet, no doubt part of the duties involve creeping to that DofE shower.

 

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21 minutes ago, MrPB said:

Almost every word in that press release is a lie.

Ah, but it was generated by some very highly paid and qualified liars. Who are helping to hold our economy together via payment of their NI, taxes etc.

So that's ok then.

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17 minutes ago, MrPB said:

Almost every word in that press release is a lie. 

Didnt they say they wrapped the only scheme up because only 14 jobs had been created, now they’re claiming nearly 1,000! 

Quite frankly who can you believe. The Starship Enterprise award scheme was a flop which produced little jobs, and now they are saying the micro grant scheme has created getting on 1000 jobs. Additionally Starship Enterprise current wheeze is Locate.im which is allowing a failing Government Quango to sponsor TT races, in the desperate hope that riders, bike teams etc would relocate to the island. Far Fetched and hair brained, still it’s only taxpayers money . Still before long we will all be able to afford the new Bremont TT watches from Dunwells, which currently cost over £5000. 

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4 hours ago, woolley said:

Forget about tax. There is zero tax everywhere until you make a profit and a high proportion of startups ultimately fail, often many, many years later. I'm looking at a company restructure now that has been in business for over 30 years, has provided massive employment but has never once turned a profit for the shareholders in all of that time. It has had government assistance on several occasions (grants/loans) but has repaid it a thousandfold in the payroll taxes remitted over the decades. That's the prize the authorities seek, as well as the obvious one of gainful employment for their people.

It's a competitive situation throughout Europe. I can go to any jurisdiction in a development zone, give my pitch for a new (or relocating) venture, and see what they will offer me.

https://tradeandinvest.wales/why-wales/10-reasons

http://www.hie.co.uk/about-hie/where-we-re-investing/default.html

http://www.thenorthwestfund.co.uk/about-the-fund/

http://www.neeal.co.uk/

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/finance-funding/getting-funding/access-finance/index_en.htm

Call me old fashioned Woolley but I was working on the assumption that a company usually exists to create a profit. 

If a company can only exist by relying on state handouts in whatever form then it shouldn't be in business at all.    

I'm not doubting your example above but what proportion of those employed by the company were actually taxpayers?

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The Tynwald answer makes it clear that “In terms of numbers of jobs created, the Department records the minimum and maximum employment forecast by a project and uses an average as an indication of the employment forecast to be created during any year in question”.  

It seems to me likely that any application for Govt assistance will have a tendency to over-egg the upside potential on the job creation side, particularly if so doing helps along the application and given that there is (presumably) no risk or other implications from so doing - such as funding being recovered if the upside projection is not met.  Also, projects are always optimistic about outcomes, otherwise nothing would ever get done!  

So, if an application says that there is likely to be a minimum job creation of ten places but that it could be as many as 150, that will be recorded by the Dept as 80 jobs created.  My instinct is that most applicants will be running closer to the minimum number projected, with only a small number of applicants hitting anywhere near the maximum figure, hence this method (quelle surprise) will probably over-state the numbers.  

There can’t be that many FAS approvals each year, so it wouldn’t take a lot of work to do a quick sample of applicants to gauge exactly what jobs have been created.

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Because it's a written answer we already have the numbers from Watterson's question.  Copying and pasting doesn't work as the answers from Enterprise (and nobody else) have random spaces inserted and taken out  so as to render their replies even more nonsensical than usual.  To summarise:

The Department’s main financial support schemes which are linked to job creation are:
 the Financial Assistance Scheme (FAS);
 the Micro Business Grant Scheme (MBGS); and
 the Enterprise Development Scheme  (EDS).

For FAS, as bankerboy says they calculate the number of 'forecast jobs' by taking the minimum and maximum and splitting the difference (technically this is a mid-range rather than an average) and of course even the minimum may be wildly over optimistic.  There seems to be no attempt to check how many (if any) have actually been created.  For the last 3 financial years the numbers they give are:

2016-17  Amount paid: £ 3,189,270.  Jobs 215

2017-18  Amount paid: £ 2,351,241.  Jobs 357

2018-19  Amount paid: £ 4,574,759.  Jobs 175

Total : Amount paid: £ 10,1152,70.   Jobs 747  (£ 13,541.19 per 'job')

They say that, because payment can be spread out over 2 years, the figures for an individual year won't match, but an average over 3 should give some idea.

Edited by Roger Mexico
Decided to post itself plus miscopied figure (totals OK).
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Perhaps a Tynwald member will question the veracity of the figures put forward, on behalf of the voting public

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33 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

...the answers from Enterprise (and nobody else) have random spaces inserted and taken out  so as to render their replies even more nonsensical than usual...

They'll be the redactions then... :lol:

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8 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

Bridge Angel Network is shutting up shop after 3 years.

I think that speaks volumes.

Who ?

edit, just googled them. Hmm

Edited by dilligaf

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