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hissingsid

Daft Daphne is at it again

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51 minutes ago, interestedman said:

Just read this in the local rag http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=44211&headline=Opinion: It's true - we get the politicians we deserve&sectionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2018

Looks like we also get the journalists we don’t deserve.  Who writes this crap ?  The newspaper should do its best to stay neutral as the only rag in town. They are as out of touch as some of our politicians !

Richard Butt who Daphne worked with when they were both trainee journalists at IOM Newspapers so it’s more than a little bit bias from someone who is probably a friend of 30 years of the subject of the article. 

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1 hour ago, interestedman said:

Just read this in the local rag http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=44211&headline=Opinion: It's true - we get the politicians we deserve&sectionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2018

Looks like we also get the journalists we don’t deserve.  Who writes this crap ?  The newspaper should do its best to stay neutral as the only rag in town. They are as out of touch as some of our politicians !

Why should they be neutral?

Or would you prefer something like North Korea’s media?

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4 hours ago, interestedman said:

Just read this in the local rag http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=44211&headline=Opinion: It's true - we get the politicians we deserve&sectionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2018

Looks like we also get the journalists we don’t deserve.  Who writes this crap ?  The newspaper should do its best to stay neutral as the only rag in town. They are as out of touch as some of our politicians !

What a ridiculous article. Could have been written by Daphne herself......

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1 hour ago, Lxxx said:

What a ridiculous article. Could have been written by Daphne herself......

What do you object to in the piece as written?

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5 hours ago, interestedman said:

Just read this in the local rag http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=44211&headline=Opinion: It's true - we get the politicians we deserve&sectionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2018

Looks like we also get the journalists we don’t deserve.  Who writes this crap ?  The newspaper should do its best to stay neutral as the only rag in town. They are as out of touch as some of our politicians !

Why? It's an opinion piece are all your opinions neutral? I am guessing you are against this because we should look after our own first? So tell me in your opinion why is it that the Isle of Man with a population 85,000 has people relying on foodbanks yet apparently the only way to get a member of tynwald to attend a presentation is provide a free lunch for them? Why are you not more annoyed about that? The islands mental health service is chronically underfunded to pay for the hospital consultants who it could be said are overpaid. Why aren't you more angry about that? This island has homeless people yet according to the World Bank  in 2017 it had the highest gross national income per capita in world. Why are you mot more enraged about that.

The motion wasn't for the Island to take in Syrian refugees it was to look at COULD it take them in. If it couldn't then it would of explained and highlighted why it couldn't. It would of highlighted all of the above. It would show that put simply the way the Island is being run is NOT good enough. The Government is spending more time and energy into creating schemes for encouraging wealthy to come and live on the island and running itself like a business than doing the simple but oh so complex thing that all governments are put in power to do and that is to look after the interest of the people who elected them. You should be up in arms and knocking on your MHK's door daily if you really are enraged. Gather like minded folk and protest to force the government to do something. Or... you could simply sit there... typing away... wasting your words... on people...who can't... change... a thing...

 

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So more time and money wasted whilst they could be looking at the Health Service and homelessness, that is the point people are making.

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2 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

So more time and money wasted whilst they could be looking at the Health Service and homelessness, that is the point people are making.

The Tynwald committees are looking into these matter - Public Accounts just pulled Couch over the coals. It is never a waste of time if they identify the problem. The issue is getting the govt to act on it. That is where an effective lobby is needed because without it the government can just ignore committee recommendations even if Tynwald adopt them. Hence the reason the Chamber of Commerce exists to lobby of for business, unions for workers and the rest of the island residents only really get a chance to change things once every five years because whilst the manx like to complain they never actually protest.

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15 minutes ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

Why? It's an opinion piece are all your opinions neutral? I am guessing you are against this because we should look after our own first? So tell me in your opinion why is it that the Isle of Man with a population 85,000 has people relying on foodbanks yet apparently the only way to get a member of tynwald to attend a presentation is provide a free lunch for them? Why are you not more annoyed about that? The islands mental health service is chronically underfunded to pay for the hospital consultants who it could be said are overpaid. Why aren't you more angry about that? This island has homeless people yet according to the World Bank  in 2017 it had the highest gross national income per capita in world. Why are you mot more enraged about that.

The motion wasn't for the Island to take in Syrian refugees it was to look at COULD it take them in. If it couldn't then it would of explained and highlighted why it couldn't. It would of highlighted all of the above. It would show that put simply the way the Island is being run is NOT good enough. The Government is spending more time and energy into creating schemes for encouraging wealthy to come and live on the island and running itself like a business than doing the simple but oh so complex thing that all governments are put in power to do and that is to look after the interest of the people who elected them. You should be up in arms and knocking on your MHK's door daily if you really are enraged. Gather like minded folk and protest to force the government to do something. Or... you could simply sit there... typing away... wasting your words... on people...who can't... change... a thing...

 

I could be wrong, and I’ll have to read it back again to check, but I think you've just stated that the world bank said we have the highest gross national income per capita in the world and used that as the basis of an argument, without the faintest idea of how they came to that figure or realising it means absolutely nothing in relation to actual individual wealth. 

I think you’ve just invalidated everything you say from here on in. 

 

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1 hour ago, Lxxx said:

. . . .  I think you've just stated that the world bank said we have the highest gross national income per capita in the world and used that as the basis of an argument, without the faintest idea of how they came to that figure or realising it means absolutely nothing in relation to actual individual wealth. 

I think you’ve just invalidated everything you say from here on in. 

 

Imagine some town with a population of 80-90,000 in UK had a lottery (£3-4 million) winner one week.

How about Barnsley, Bedford or Burnley or wherever.

It might make the local paper.

Then Lo and Behold, that very same place had another big lottery winner the following week. Well, we're talking national news here.

Ok, ok, chance is a funny bugger, but let's say for a THIRD week there was another lottery winner. Same place. Wow! That town has some money flowing into it doesn't it. What a bonanza indeed. And the chances of this happening are unbelievable but there you go.

Right, ok. let's 'pretend' the Isle of Man had the equivalent of a big lottery win pouring into it -  not 1 week, not 2 weeks. Not even 3 weeks. But Every week for many years.

In extra VAT money over and above what the Island has earned.

Extra.

Unbelievable. And yet not a single national newspaper has picked up on it yet.

Where did all the money go? Where is it now? Who is going to get it? Who cleaned up? Who is cleaning up now? 

 

 

Edited by gettafa

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39 minutes ago, gettafa said:

Imagine some town with a population of 80-90,000 in UK had a lottery (£3-4 million) winner one week.

How about Barnsley, Bedford or Burnley or wherever.

It might make the local paper.

Then Lo and Behold, that very same place had another big lottery winner the following week. Well, we're talking national news here.

Ok, ok, chance is a funny bugger, but let's say for a THIRD week there was another lottery winner. Same place. Wow! That town has some money flowing into it doesn't it. What a bonanza indeed. And the chances of this happening are unbelievable but there you go.

Right, ok. let's 'pretend' the Isle of Man had the equivalent of a big lottery win pouring into it -  not 1 week, not 2 weeks. Not even 3 weeks. But Every week for many years.

In extra VAT money over and above what the Island has earned.

Extra.

Unbelievable. And yet not a single national newspaper has picked up on it yet.

Where did all the money go? Where is it now? Who is going to get it? Who cleaned up? Who is cleaning up now? 

 

 

It all went on golden handshakes.

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2 hours ago, Lxxx said:

I could be wrong, and I’ll have to read it back again to check, but I think you've just stated that the world bank said we have the highest gross national income per capita in the world and used that as the basis of an argument, without the faintest idea of how they came to that figure or realising it means absolutely nothing in relation to actual individual wealth. 

I think you’ve just invalidated everything you say from here on in. 

Indeed!  Fancy going to one of the world's major economic institutions to get information on economics, when everyone knows that the only true route to such wisdom is YouTube videos on chemtrails.

(Not to say that such information should be accepted uncritically and there is a debate over the significance of statistics such as GNI and the methods of calculating it.  And it would be interesting to know why there isn't a GNI for 2017 for the Island - they were very enthusiastic about the measure at one time - or why they have produced no PPP figures.  But perhaps start from what we have available and try to improve it)

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8 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Indeed!  Fancy going to one of the world's major economic institutions to get information on economics, when everyone knows that the only true route to such wisdom is YouTube videos on chemtrails.

(Not to say that such information should be accepted uncritically and there is a debate over the significance of statistics such as GNI and the methods of calculating it.  And it would be interesting to know why there isn't a GNI for 2017 for the Island - they were very enthusiastic about the measure at one time - or why they have produced no PPP figures.  But perhaps start from what we have available and try to improve it)

Not sure what YouTube has to do with this but anyway....

The point the previous poster was implying is that we are completely awash with money, according to a rather questionable way of measuring wealth.

So awash with money that we can start ignoring the obvious poverty which is staring us all in the face as you walk around Douglas, or unfortunately fall ill and have to attend the hospital, or wish to visit a dentist, or have you child educated by a adequately funded system....

This isn’t to say we can’t do our bit for world issues but to have that as the basis of your argument, that we can afford it because we top the whole planet on gross income per capita therefore have plenty of spare funds to go round, is the most stupid and simplistic argument I’ve  heard on the topic. 

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11 hours ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

The Tynwald committees are looking into these matter - Public Accounts just pulled Couch over the coals. It is never a waste of time if they identify the problem. The issue is getting the govt to act on it. That is where an effective lobby is needed because without it the government can just ignore committee recommendations even if Tynwald adopt them. Hence the reason the Chamber of Commerce exists to lobby of for business, unions for workers and the rest of the island residents only really get a chance to change things once every five years because whilst the manx like to complain they never actually protest.

Yes we get all this and I completely agree with your sentiments. 

Are you saying we should back the motion to discuss putting extra strain on our resources because by doing that we shine a light on why we haven’t the resources to go round in the first place?

Whilst I agree we should be addressing such issues I’m not sure that is the best way to approach the subject, by using refugees as the Trojan Horse. 

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22 minutes ago, Lxxx said:

Not sure what YouTube has to do with this but anyway....

The point the previous poster was implying is that we are completely awash with money, according to a rather questionable way of measuring wealth.

So awash with money that we can start ignoring the obvious poverty which is staring us all in the face as you walk around Douglas, or unfortunately fall ill and have to attend the hospital, or wish to visit a dentist, or have you child educated by a adequately funded system....

This isn’t to say we can’t do our bit for world issues but to have that as the basis of your argument, that we can afford it because we top the whole planet on gross income per capita therefore have plenty of spare funds to go round, is the most stupid and simplistic argument I’ve  heard on the topic. 

But that's not what you appeared to say, though.  Which was that Ham_N_Eggs' use of World Bank statistics invalidated any subsequent arguments, when in fact they were actually making a similar point to what you have - the contrast between (nominal) national wealth and the way the less well-off are treated, either at home or abroad.

Now it's very possible that the way that all those clever people in the Cabinet Office presented national economic statistics is even more dubious that all the other dodgy countries that fiddle their figures.  But you would need to examine what they produce and show that.  However in the end, a high GNI indicates that there is a lot of money associated with the Island somewhere and any problems are caused by the way it is distributed rather than national poverty.  What it then gets spent on is a political matter, but politicians should be allowed to get away with saying "There's no money left" when what they really mean is that they want to spend it on other things.

There's actually virtue-signalling from both sides going on here.  "Look how we care for these poor refugees" versus "Look we care most about our own people", though there's some in the second group usually turn out to define 'our own people' very narrowly to being them and their mates.  But it's also worth saying that many people on both sides of the argument are sincere and that there are many who feel that both groups of people should be helped..

As I've pointed out already on this topic, there are too many legal and administrative barriers for the Island to be able to deal with Syrian (or any other) refugees in a speedy and effective manner.  If we had a Chief Minister who had been able to explain this coherently, maybe there would be more focus on things where a difference could be made.  But that would mean admitting just how bad the current IOMG was at dealing with legal and administrative changes and it's always easier to resort to personal insults for some people.

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