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Lack Of Road Safety Strategy...

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1 minute ago, The Duck of Atholl said:

In that case let's derestrict speed on all roads and leave speed safety to the judgment of the motorists...oh hang on a minute.

Indeed. It would require a higher standard of driver training initially, regular retraining and retesting.

However on an evidence-based approach it is likely to have a much more effective outcome.

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5 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

I’m not

I am advocating safer roads. 

 

How many drivers using cars with R plates do you see speeding and overtaking?

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1 minute ago, Bobbie Bobster said:

Indeed. It would require a higher standard of driver training initially, regular retraining and retesting.

However on an evidence-based approach it is likely to have a much more effective outcome.

when you have driving instructors parking on corners/double yellow lines/white zig zag markings whilst talking to their pupil, what chance is there for better driver training?

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1 hour ago, Kitten Mittens said:

I'm not saying I disagree with you, but we're completely missing the purpose of Stinky's original point with regards to motorists going 35 mph is a 50 zone. 

If it wasn't so painfully common for people to travel well under the speed limit, the conversation of safe/unsafe overtaking would never have occurred.

 

P.s. before some wise-crack says 'its a limit, not a target', if you were to re-sit your driving test and do 35 in a 50, you will fail. Why? Because it is argued that it can be unsafe to drive well below the legal limit.

I'm not missing the point. If someone is travelling at 35mph it isn't down to a following driver to take the law into his/hers own hands and break the speed limit to get past. I agree a learner may fail their test for failing to make progress but that doesn't mean they are breaking the law. There is a minimum speed limit on a motorway for good reason, that being that the permitted speed of vehicles on a motorway is quite high. Two different things

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Just now, Neil Down said:

How many drivers using cars with R plates do you see speeding and overtaking?

Interestingly, IIRC the R plate 'attaches' to the car, not the driver. So even if you're Stirling Bloddy Moss in an R plated vehicle, you're not doing over 50.

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5 minutes ago, Bobbie Bobster said:

Indeed. It would require a higher standard of driver training initially, regular retraining and retesting.

However on an evidence-based approach it is likely to have a much more effective outcome.

I have little faith in education and training as a safety panacea. For example the dangers of drink driving are known to all drivers unless they live (and drive) in a cave. However, drink driving up this year despite the big campaign. Why? Human nature...being both or either (1) I know I'm safe to drive after a couple of pints (2) I'll never get caught.

 

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5 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

when you have driving instructors parking on corners/double yellow lines/white zig zag markings whilst talking to their pupil, what chance is there for better driver training?

They have to, so they're out of the way of the five-abreast cyclists! :lol:

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1 minute ago, Bobbie Bobster said:

They have to, so they're out of the way of the five-abreast cyclists! :lol:

You have a point. I'm a keen cyclist and riders breaking the law or riding without consideration for other road users really winds me up. I'd like to see more pulled and ticketed for indiscretions to get the message across. 

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33 minutes ago, The Duck of Atholl said:

I'm not missing the point. If someone is travelling at 35mph it isn't down to a following driver to take the law into his/hers own hands and break the speed limit to get past. I agree a learner may fail their test for failing to make progress but that doesn't mean they are breaking the law. There is a minimum speed limit on a motorway for good reason, that being that the permitted speed of vehicles on a motorway is quite high. Two different things

No, I get that. Hence why I said that I wasn't disagreeing with you.

I know that you've clearly said that you haven't missed the point... but I'm a bit nervous that you may have still missed the point. We're still getting strung up on Stinky's question about how to safely (or unsafely) overtake somebody travelling at 35 mph in a 50 mph zone. I gathered that the aim (or at least part of the aim) of Stinky's original question wasn't for a literal response to the question but to magnify that so many people do fail to make progress in these zones and a 50 mph limit is very often too slow to safely (and legally) complete an overtake.

If we read backwards, I understood that Stinky was trying to argue that a national limit of 50 mph in non-built up areas would be too slow given the fact it could be unsafe to overtake within this limit, as outlined above. Judging by the subsequent string of responses within this thread, I think it was a good question by Stinky with quite an interesting argument - 50 mph might be too slow of a national speed limit. Good food for thought!

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1 hour ago, Bobbie Bobster said:

Interestingly, IIRC the R plate 'attaches' to the car, not the driver. So even if you're Stirling Bloddy Moss in an R plated vehicle, you're not doing over 50.

Sad fact is that a large number of drivers do not understand the law surround R plates

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........do we still have an RPU?..........I don't seem to be seeing many road patrol vehicles...........

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1 hour ago, The Duck of Atholl said:

I have little faith in education and training as a safety panacea. For example the dangers of drink driving are known to all drivers unless they live (and drive) in a cave. However, drink driving up this year despite the big campaign. Why? Human nature...being both or either (1) I know I'm safe to drive after a couple of pints (2) I'll never get caught.

 

I'd be interested to know the make and model of the vehicles where there has been successful DD prosecutions.

Why? There are more large 4x4/SUV type vehicles on the road than at any other time and I'm convinced that there will be certain drivers who think/believe that being in a bigger car somehow 'protects' them, even after a drinking session.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

Sad fact is that a large number of drivers do not understand the law surround R plates

Not surprising is it ?. 3 years ago all sorts of changes were proposed (october 2015). What happened to those ??? It would have been a step in the right direction but  best to do nothing as always.

From the local press at that time .:- 

""Restrictions could be placed on new drivers in an effort to improve road safety on the Isle of Man. 

Under plans proposed by government motorists would have to display their R plates for two years instead of one - they'd also be restricted to carrying one passenger. 
 
In addition a curfew, between 12am and 5am, would be imposed and there would be an outright ban for those who acquire six penalty points in the first 12 months of driving. 
 
It's in an effort to reduce the number of fatal collisions by promoting a safer environment for new drivers whilst they build their experience.
 
Consideration will be given to introducing a system whereby R-plate drivers could prove their abilities through additional training, which could see their restrictions reduced. ""
 
Whilst some of these proposals were not well thought out the ones about penalty points could have had a positive affect on changing the culture of speeding R  platers at a very early stage of their driving. Other parts of the proposals could have had a positive affect on inexperienced drivers too.  
One thing that most people I have spoken to don't realise is that a new driver isn't just on R plates for 12 months from passing their test . They are on them for 12 months from obtaining their full licence --- which in some cases could add several months to their time on R plates .
Edited by emesde
To add final paragraph

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10 minutes ago, emesde said:

Not surprising is it ?. 3 years ago all sorts of changes were proposed (october 2015). What happened to those ??? It would have been a step in the right direction but  best to do nothing as always.

From the local press at that time .:- 

""Restrictions could be placed on new drivers in an effort to improve road safety on the Isle of Man. 

Under plans proposed by government motorists would have to display their R plates for two years instead of one - they'd also be restricted to carrying one passenger. 
 
In addition a curfew, between 12am and 5am, would be imposed and there would be an outright ban for those who acquire six penalty points in the first 12 months of driving. 
 
It's in an effort to reduce the number of fatal collisions by promoting a safer environment for new drivers whilst they build their experience.
 
Consideration will be given to introducing a system whereby R-plate drivers could prove their abilities through additional training, which could see their restrictions reduced. ""

I'm certainly not saying that changes shouldn't be made, but I don't think the changes that were mentioned in 2015 (that you've kindly listed above) are the correct ones. They're very much aimed at teenagers/students, rather than newly qualified drivers.

I get that most newly qualified drivers are teenagers or students, but imagine being the 35 year old nurse with two children. Passes a test of competence yet can't drive anywhere as a family and must abandon the car should they need to leave mid-way through a night shift. I don't think it's fair to require additional training in order to drive your family places, having already passed the standard test.

 

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