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The 'Trans' Issue.


quilp
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2 hours ago, quilp said:

There is so much wrong with this 'right on' post. Not that I can be arsed challenging it.

Anyway, the dysmorphic adults can be what they want, it's the experimentation with children which causes my conflict.

Puberty blockers are hardly "experimentation". Its pretty well understood what they do. Bear in mind that HRT and surgery are illegal in the UK on anyone under the age of 16. Over that age they are considered as able to give consent. Puberty blockers exist solely as a means to delay puberty to allow the individual to figure out who they are and what they want to do going forward. The closure of Tavistock is something that is applauded on both sides. However, as I said above, it isn't a win for the critics. They are opening a series of new regional clinics that will aim to treat mental health issues and other physical ailments ALONGSIDE gender treatment. Not instead of. Its a win for trans youth as they will get the care that they deserve.

2 hours ago, quilp said:

Are you a parent, Chie?

No. I have nieces and nephews. If one of those turned round to me and said "I want to explore my sense of gender". I would support them in any way that I could. And, if they decided after a while they were happy as they are. I would support that also. The one thing I wouldn't do is tell them that they are wrong, invalidate their identity or otherwise do anything that would cause them harm. If I did have my own child, the same would apply. I wouldn't dream in a million years of telling my child or any child that they are wrong for feeling the way they do. In trans youth, about 80% have seriously considered killing themselves and about 40% have tried it. At that points theres clearly an issue and telling them they are wrong for feeling the way they do, which is what these critics actually do, is only going to exasperate that further. The new clinic will seek to look at both the mental health AND the gender side and try to better figure out what is going on before going ahead with any specific treatments.

2 hours ago, quilp said:

Stonewall is such an "amazing charity" that its patronage is dropping off rapidly. LGB Alliance, a charity run by mostly heterosexuals (is it? Link?), demonised by you because it's obviously bad for the cause yet its patronage slowly rises annually.

A quick google search will reveal all you need to know about the LGBA.

Bev Jackson - Straight

Ann Sinnot - Straight, resigned in 2021 after failing to ban trans women from womens spaces.

Kathleen Stock - Straight.

Malcom Clark - Straight. Wants LGBT clubs banned in school because of "predatory gay teachers". What about the predatory straight teachers?. Seems to be plenty of those, seldom ever hear of a illegal gay teacher student relationship. Straight ones however, damn.

Eileen Gallagher - Straight

Conrad Roeber - Straight

Robert Wintemute - Straight

Lord Young - Straight

Alison Bailey - Gay, recently lost her case against stonewall and spent 500k for a 22k payout.

Kate Harris - Gay?. Unsure on this one.

Most gay people I know, have seen online, at various pride events, do not support the LGBA. They are a small group being given a big voice by the media.

They have done virtually nothing for the rights of LGB people, besides target trans people having imagined them into some kind of monster that is waiting round every corner to attack you. They are a hate group ran by primarily straight individuals, who claim the kind of nonsense of "If your son likes Ballet he might turn out to be gay" or try desperately to peddle the utter nonsense that trans people are sex offenders. Oh, and want to ban unisex toilets.

What has stonewall done for LGB (not including trans people at the minute) rights.

Equal treatment of gay and lesbian people for adoption. Unequal age of consent laws challenged. Overturned the ban on gay people in the army. Forced south west trains to pay equal pay. Repeal of Clause 2a and Section 28. Recognition of anti-gay hate crimes in the Criminal Justice Act 2003. Introduction of the civil partnership act 2004. Diversity champions program of 2001 that encouraged positive treatment of LGB people and an end to discrimination in work places and schools. Helped shape the equality act 2006. Equal treatment of lesbians in the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 2008. Introduced incitement of homophobic hatred into the Criminal Justice Act 2008. Education for all program. Numerous amounts of research into areas such as hate crime and homophobia in football. 

Also, yes, some organisations are leaving. But there is still over 850 UK organisations and companies still registered in the program and thriving. No charity or organisation is perfect and Stonewall has occasionally had its issues. But if its a choice between the LGBA and Stonewall, Stonewall wins every single time. Yes, they are focused on trans rights. Ever think that it might be because THAT is the main issue at the minute. Since 2015 it's been nothing but hate towards trans people from multiple directions. They are an LGBTQIA+ rights organisation. Of course they are going to fight it and focus energy onto it. But given they were actively extracting LGBTQIA+ afghans recently while the LGBA was shouting about unisex toilets, it's clear cut on who has a better focus on LGB.

Edited by Chie
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22 hours ago, John Wright said:

Apart from the historic fact of women on stage being played by men until the C17, and panto dames ( and principal boys ) and the fact that drag is a working class music hall ( ie pubs with concert halls, not the Good Old Days genteel travesty ) coarse and bawdy tradition, just like lots of Shakespeare.

Doesn't concern me at all.

Theres no pretence of being a woman. There’s no denigration. It’s a man playing a man playing a fish wife. It’s like the Lord of Misrule.

I had the privilege of seeing Mrs Shufflewick in the East End, 45 years ago. Coarsest language I’ve ever been exposed to. 

As for the names, it’s deprecating as well as lewd. And it’s just an extension of double entendre.

You'll have to join me at the Trocks. The drag ballet troupe. You’ll probably have a heart attack at the ballerina’s names.

Do you have the same worries about drag kings

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I’m afraid you are talking a different language to me!
Lord of  Misrule, Mrs Shufflewick. Means nothing to me. I’m also not a fan of Shakespeare, having had his plays thrust upon me as a schoolchild. If that hadn’t happened then maybe I could appreciate his works as an adult but it spoilt it for me.

But I’m sure I wouldn’t have a heart attack  at ballerinas names. I’m fairly broad minded.

As for drag kings I’ve not really given it much thought.

I do appreciate my unease with drag queens is irrational. They’re not doing any one any harm. But I suppose the same could be said of most phobias ( arachnophobia etc)

I just find them creepy.

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1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I’m afraid you are talking a different language to me!
Lord of  Misrule, Mrs Shufflewick. Means nothing to me. I’m also not a fan of Shakespeare, having had his plays thrust upon me as a schoolchild. If that hadn’t happened then maybe I could appreciate his works as an adult but it spoilt it for me.

But I’m sure I wouldn’t have a heart attack  at ballerinas names. I’m fairly broad minded.

As for drag kings I’ve not really given it much thought.

I do appreciate my unease with drag queens is irrational. They’re not doing any one any harm. But I suppose the same could be said of most phobias ( arachnophobia etc)

I just find them creepy.

In fact on a scale of creepiness I would give the Black and White Minstrels 10 and drag queens 8, maybe 8 and a half 

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28 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

In fact on a scale of creepiness I would give the Black and White Minstrels 10 and drag queens 8, maybe 8 and a half 

There's a time and a place for everything, and it's not always being observed!

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14 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

In fact on a scale of creepiness I would give the Black and White Minstrels 10 and drag queens 8, maybe 8 and a half 

The black and white minstrel show launched as a regular Saturday-night programme in 1958 and by 1963 was attracting 16.5 million viewers. This show ran for twenty years, so not that many found it "creepy"

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1 hour ago, Newbie said:

She describes herself as a lesbian. Is that not true?

She is, and has received the by now ubiquitous death-threats for her outspoken views...

 

 

Screenshot_20220803-111928~2.png

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On 8/1/2022 at 10:05 AM, quilp said:

There is so much wrong with this 'right on' post. Not that I can be arsed challenging it.

Anyway, the dysmorphic adults can be what they want, it's the experimentation with children which causes my conflict.

Are you a parent, Chie?

Stonewall is such an "amazing charity" that its patronage is dropping off rapidly. LGB Alliance, a charity run by mostly heterosexuals (is it? Link?), demonised by you because it's obviously bad for the cause yet its patronage slowly rises annually.

Fuck it... 

LGB alliance aren’t the nicest bunch. 

Patronage doesn’t really mean much, nasty causes get patronised all the time.  Far left and far right groups even when outlawed have a patronage. 

How many nice charities have appeals lodged with regards to whether they should have charity status? And how many have funding withdrawn when that falls into question?

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