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The 'Trans' Issue.


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"No place for police presence at Pride say trans drag queens"

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/no-place-for-police-presence-at-pride-say-trans-drag-queens/

Have to say this is a bit of a non-thought out argument - so do we stop policing black people because of slavery, anyone French because we were at war with them for hundreds of years?

Police only enforce the law - they don't make it. Politicians do, so they should be on the ban list also?

I have several gay and trans friends here in the UK, so no axe to grind here, but get real here.

Move forward.

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8 hours ago, Chie said:

Trans people make up 1% of the population. 

Also, to answer your earlier comment about shouting the loudest. The reason it’s mainly M2F is because we are the ones being targeted.

Look I appreciate it's not an awesome position your in, but society is built on the needs of the many not the needs of the few (as Spock would say).  Fundamental changes cannot be enforced on everyone because of the needs of a microscopic percentage of people.  It actually then alienates the majority who are then afraid to voice their opposition.  

42 minutes ago, Newbie said:

It doesn't achieve what they (presumably) want - to prevent Kathleen Stock putting her views forward, and it gives the general public completely the wrong impression of the vast majority of the trans community.

This is the point.  The tactic is not working, it's almost having the reverse effect and creating more animosity.  The vitriol, outrage and death threats are actually oppressive to anyone who does not have EXACLTY the same view.  It's an attack on free speech and peoples' opinions, which a scary global scenario we are now finding ourselves in. 

8 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

"No place for police presence at Pride say trans drag queens"

 

This is veering towards the whole 'de-fund the police' action in the US, which is now unsurprisingly causing spiralling crime figures. 

I'm sure they would be up in arms if there were no police if even something minor happened, like handbags being nicked.  God knows what would happen if there was a fight or a opposing protest. 

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1 hour ago, Albert Tatlock said:

"No place for police presence at Pride say trans drag queens"

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/no-place-for-police-presence-at-pride-say-trans-drag-queens/

Have to say this is a bit of a non-thought out argument - so do we stop policing black people because of slavery, anyone French because we were at war with them for hundreds of years?

Police only enforce the law - they don't make it. Politicians do, so they should be on the ban list also?

I have several gay and trans friends here in the UK, so no axe to grind here, but get real here.

Move forward.

It's getting ridiculous now. A few "screaming queens" who weren't even born when this sorry state of affairs took place causing more damage than they are good. I have a number of gay/lesbian friends who just want to get on with their lives without highlighting their sexuality. Sadly the vociferous few are not letting this happen

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1 hour ago, Albert Tatlock said:

"No place for police presence at Pride say trans drag queens"

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/no-place-for-police-presence-at-pride-say-trans-drag-queens/

Have to say this is a bit of a non-thought out argument - so do we stop policing black people because of slavery, anyone French because we were at war with them for hundreds of years?

Police only enforce the law - they don't make it. Politicians do, so they should be on the ban list also?

I have several gay and trans friends here in the UK, so no axe to grind here, but get real here.

Move forward.

Their main argument seems to be that Pride is a protest rather than a party, and as such the Police have no place there as it makes them feel unsafe. When did protesters get to choose whether their protest was policed? Or for that matter, when did it become necessary for the police to be invited by the organisers before they could be present at a protest? Would they want to see that extended to all protests? Can any group of people who feel they have been treated harshly by the Police in the past demand that their activities are no longer policed because a police presence makes them feel unsafe? So many questions!

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  • 4 weeks later...

A friend and former colleague who's had experience from a HR point of view of dealing with trans issues in the workplace in the NHS passed this on to me as they were interested to know what I thought of it.

I know it's from the mail online, and I have no idea how accurate it is myself, but my friend assures me it is accurate.  (It's Canadian so I suspect it probably is accurate although I don't know for sure)

Assuming it is, what do others think of what is being described in the article? 

Is this trans teacher simply expressing how they feel about their sex/gender in a legitimate way that is acceptable in a school setting, or is there perhaps an element of misogyny here?  Is the trans teacher innocently demonstrating either (1) their personal ideal of a woman or their own image of themself, or (2) are they displaying an offensive and distorted caricature that reduces women to nothing more than a pair of giant breasts?

The school is apparently giving this teacher their wholehearted support and sees nothing to be concerned about regarding the way in which they present themselves at school.

High school defends transgender teacher with large prosthetic breasts | Daily Mail Online

 

 

 

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On 9/20/2022 at 12:30 AM, Ghost Ship said:

A friend and former colleague who's had experience from a HR point of view of dealing with trans issues in the workplace in the NHS passed this on to me as they were interested to know what I thought of it.

I know it's from the mail online, and I have no idea how accurate it is myself, but my friend assures me it is accurate.  (It's Canadian so I suspect it probably is accurate although I don't know for sure)

Assuming it is, what do others think of what is being described in the article? 

Is this trans teacher simply expressing how they feel about their sex/gender in a legitimate way that is acceptable in a school setting, or is there perhaps an element of misogyny here?  Is the trans teacher innocently demonstrating either (1) their personal ideal of a woman or their own image of themself, or (2) are they displaying an offensive and distorted caricature that reduces women to nothing more than a pair of giant breasts?

The school is apparently giving this teacher their wholehearted support and sees nothing to be concerned about regarding the way in which they present themselves at school.

High school defends transgender teacher with large prosthetic breasts | Daily Mail Online

 

 

 

Anything from the mail is usually skewed in some way to suit their narrative. Probably the least reliable paper in existence.

I personally don’t see any issue with it. If that’s how they want to express themselves then so be it. They aren’t exactly hurting anyone and the only people who seem to be offended are the terfs.

The problem here is that, if you start setting a certain standard on this trans woman, you end up setting the same standard on cis women. Some cis women are born naturally with huge breasts and others have implants to take them up to G/H size and beyond. If a trans woman feels that she wants to do the same, then there’s no reason why she can’t. Maybe she doesn’t have the money required for the implants. I wouldn’t say it’s misogynistic as that would make all women misogynists who choose to have breasts over a certain size.

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1 hour ago, Chie said:

Anything from the mail is usually skewed in some way to suit their narrative. Probably the least reliable paper in existence.

I personally don’t see any issue with it. If that’s how they want to express themselves then so be it. They aren’t exactly hurting anyone and the only people who seem to be offended are the terfs.

The problem here is that, if you start setting a certain standard on this trans woman, you end up setting the same standard on cis women. Some cis women are born naturally with huge breasts and others have implants to take them up to G/H size and beyond. If a trans woman feels that she wants to do the same, then there’s no reason why she can’t. Maybe she doesn’t have the money required for the implants. I wouldn’t say it’s misogynistic as that would make all women misogynists who choose to have breasts over a certain size.

If a female teacher (without a penis) went to school with her tits hanging out like that, then she would be told justifiably to cover up.  This individual has clearly done this to bait a reaction and receive 'special' treatment again rather than just being treated like everybody else. 

Similarly, if I were a teacher, would it be acceptable as a man to turn up to teach wearing skintight leggings tightly hugging and accentuating a donkey penis that came down to my knee? 

Edited by The Phantom
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3 hours ago, The Phantom said:

If a female teacher (without a penis) went to school with her tits hanging out like that, then she would be told justifiably to cover up.

The teacher is covered up, no?

That said it's clearly causing a distraction and impacting learning. Dunno what the school is supposed to do about that though, nor what they could do about a cisgendered teacher who causes distractions for the same pair of reasons. And there were a few when I was in school...

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On 8/26/2022 at 8:55 AM, The Phantom said:

This is veering towards the whole 'de-fund the police' action in the US, which is now unsurprisingly causing spiralling crime figures. 

Going to need some fairly extraordinary evidence to show that defund the police is causing an increase in crime (which is the opposite to what has happened with the initiative in the past) rather than it being the spiralling cost of living and growing wealth inequality causing an increase in crime (which it has always done in the past).

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2 hours ago, HeliX said:

The teacher is covered up, no?

That said it's clearly causing a distraction and impacting learning. Dunno what the school is supposed to do about that though, nor what they could do about a cisgendered teacher who causes distractions for the same pair of reasons. And there were a few when I was in school...

Yeah but there's boobs and there are comedy parodies of boobs.  I can only imagine from the above that you haven't seen them.  

This is not a joke apparently.... 

Kayla Lemieux is a Manufacturing Technology teacher at Oakville Trafalgar High School in Ontario

 

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2 hours ago, HeliX said:

Going to need some fairly extraordinary evidence to show that defund the police is causing an increase in crime (which is the opposite to what has happened with the initiative in the past) rather than it being the spiralling cost of living and growing wealth inequality causing an increase in crime (which it has always done in the past).

Crime figures have jumped massively since 2020 in the US especially.  

The cost of living is only really something that has kicked in this year so I don't think the two are related (yet). 

This is mainly US based as luckily we've not hopped on that bandwagon yet, but to be honest, it's probably a mix of covid, Trump, increased militancy and intolerance AND defunding the Police. 

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Just now, The Phantom said:

Crime figures have jumped massively since 2020 in the US especially.  

The cost of living is only really something that has kicked in this year so I don't think the two are related (yet). 

This is mainly US based as luckily we've not hopped on that bandwagon yet, but to be honest, it's probably a mix of covid, Trump, increased militancy and intolerance AND defunding the Police. 

The cost of living and cost of unemployment over Covid was huge. Defunding the police has generally lead to lower crime rates anywhere it's actually been tried. This is worth reading... https://www.versobooks.com/books/2426-the-end-of-policing

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5 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

Yeah but there's boobs and there are comedy parodies of boobs.  I can only imagine from the above that you haven't seen them.  

This is not a joke apparently.... 

Kayla Lemieux is a Manufacturing Technology teacher at Oakville Trafalgar High School in Ontario

 

Other than the comedy nipples, there were certainly some teachers when I was a kid who wouldn't be far off rivalling that. But the point for me is that it's causing classroom disruption so something should probably be done, but I don't know what. There were NQTs who caused classroom disruption by being unreasonably attractive when I was at school. Not sure what you do about that either. This is clearly more egregious than that, mind. And is in the somewhat unique position of being able to remove them.

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6 hours ago, HeliX said:

But the point for me is that it's causing classroom disruption so something should probably be done, but I don't know what.

Surely the something that should be done is that she should be instructed that she should not be wearing the fake breasts whilst working in the classroom?

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