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Uhtred

Where did the voters go..?

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2 minutes ago, John Wright said:

I know it is a long time ago, but the same thing happened before the 2006 General Election. I was commissioned to investigate and report. I did. Nothing was done. Now 2006 has been repeated. Same cause, same remedies required.

It is indeed unfortunate that there is no Manx Electoral Commission. The Quayle Boundary Commission, on which I also sat, reccomended that. Tynwald accepted that part of the report in 2006, but did nothing.

All of which therefore deepens the likelihood of yet further distrust/contempt/outrage at our supine parliament and autocratic government. The instruments of the state on this Island are an utter disgrace. I once dismissed those on these pages who called for UK government intervention in our affairs as cranks. It appears that it may be becoming essential.

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7 minutes ago, John Wright said:

I know it is a long time ago, but the same thing happened before the 2006 General Election. I was commissioned to investigate and report. I did. Nothing was done. Now 2006 has been repeated. Same cause, same remedies required.

It is indeed unfortunate that there is no Manx Electoral Commission. The Quayle Boundary Commission, on which I also sat, reccomended that. Tynwald accepted that part of the report in 2006, but did nothing.

Popping back in from the side lines to oppose the bullshit in this thread.

 Voter apathy is the main reason for low turnouts. People just don't care who gets in as it is usually the same old same old. I worked on the 2006 census and I could not believe the amount of people I had to speak to who did not want to complete the census form, usually for fear of being accounted for and having to go on a voters list for jury service or paying for their tv. I still maintain that about 1 in 20 or even more did not complete their census form. 

For a poster ( TSOS) to liken this situation to Lewin is incredible. "Buster" and his paymasters conspired and succeeded in robbing people of their votes and most of his victims will probably never vote again.

I respect "Non-Believer" as a sensible poster so I wont include him in this, but loads of people did not bother to fill their forms in re the electoral roll, but now pretend that they did for devilment.

 Kopek has more or less nailed it in his post. People do not care,

It matters not how many commissions some folk, like John sit on or what they decide should happen, Nobody seems to care. You cannot make people show interest or make them want to vote.

The mere mention of "Buster" destroys any argument and to prove that point, just look at the utter rubbish he posted on facebook and was quoted on here regarding Nobles. The man is not well and should be treated with kid gloves.

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I think the very senior cs responsible for this has just retired. So we're already into 'lessons learnt ' territory.

Ultimately I agree, very few, apart from family and mates care, and when you see big decisions about walls, steps and Christmas trees, you can kinda see why

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21 minutes ago, english zloty said:

I think the very senior cs responsible for this has just retired. 

Yet Buster did time (I have no issue with that) for possibly a lot less. 

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19 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

Yet Buster did time (I have no issue with that) for possibly a lot less. 

You don't understand the law then ?

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6 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

You don't understand the law then ?

No I understand the law. Just not the logic of an irrational split-personality flouncer.  

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5 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

No I understand the law. Just not the logic of an irrational split-personality flouncer.  

You kid yourself mate. 

Now neil down has left some people think they are immune to any form of criticism. Wrong.

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1 hour ago, dilligaf said:

 Voter apathy is the main reason for low turnouts. People just don't care who gets in as it is usually the same old same old. I worked on the 2006 census and I could not believe the amount of people I had to speak to who did not want to complete the census form, usually for fear of being accounted for and having to go on a voters list for jury service or paying for their tv. I still maintain that about 1 in 20 or even more did not complete their census form. 

For a poster ( TSOS) to liken this situation to Lewin is incredible. "Buster" and his paymasters conspired and succeeded in robbing people of their votes and most of his victims will probably never vote again.

A couple of points here,  Firstly you don't decrease (percentage) turnout by taking people off the electoral toll, you increase it.  This is because the people you remove are usually less likely to vote than those left on, unless you you're taking people off completely at random.  This doesn't justify it and many of those who lost their vote would have used it, but you can't pin the blame on falling turnout on that.  Similarly the sort of people who don't want to go on the electoral roll are those who almost certainly wouldn't vote anyway and them being missed off would increase turnout.

Secondly, despicable though what Buster did was,  he  deprived fewer people of their votes than this purging of the electoral roll did[1].  If 20% of voters were illegally removed, that's a lot more the entire electorate of Douglas East was in 2010.  But of course when such things are done by 'senior' civil servants there is no need for anyone to face any consequences - any more than there was for Buster's 'paymasters'.

What seems to have happened here is that someone who was supposed to know what they were doing made a decision that was not justified in law and followed it up with incorrect advice to those affected.  Rather than admitting the mistake and trying to put things right straight away, the usual civil service omerta meant a lot of money and time spent on cover-up and obfuscation.

Mercifully the electoral roll was got back into shape in time for the General Election, though why anyone imagines that a lawyer would be the best person to sort the truth of this out, after the messes various of them made at that event, is a mystery.

 

[1]  Because he was caught before the election day, was there actually any need for anyone to lose their vote because the proxy forms could have all been voided?  Were they even handed in?

 

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1 minute ago, Roger Mexico said:

A couple of points here,  Firstly you don't decrease (percentage) turnout by taking people off the electoral toll, you increase it.  This is because the people you remove are usually less likely to vote than those left on, unless you you're taking people off completely at random.  This doesn't justify it and many of those who lost their vote would have used it, but you can't pin the blame on falling turnout on that.  Similarly the sort of people who don't want to go on the electoral roll are those who almost certainly wouldn't vote anyway and them being missed off would increase turnout.

Secondly, despicable though what Buster did was,  he  deprived fewer people of their votes than this purging of the electoral roll did[1].  If 20% of voters were illegally removed, that's a lot more the entire electorate of Douglas East was in 2010.  But of course when such things are done by 'senior' civil servants there is no need for anyone to face any consequences - any more than there was for Buster's 'paymasters'.

What seems to have happened here is that someone who was supposed to know what they were doing made a decision that was not justified in law and followed it up with incorrect advice to those affected.  Rather than admitting the mistake and trying to put things right straight away, the usual civil service omerta meant a lot of money and time spent on cover-up and obfuscation.

Mercifully the electoral roll was got back into shape in time for the General Election, though why anyone imagines that a lawyer would be the best person to sort the truth of this out, after the messes various of them made at that event, is a mystery.

 

[1]  Because he was caught before the election day, was there actually any need for anyone to lose their vote because the proxy forms could have all been voided?  Were they even handed in?

 

Your ignorance speaks volumes.

 

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and this is the sort of post that has got me 7 bans so far and 3 more to go no doubt.

 Why are the mods so liberal in their moderation.

Why is the truth so hard to swallow ?

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4 hours ago, dilligaf said:

You kid yourself mate. 

Now neil down has left some people think they are immune to any form of criticism. Wrong.

Has Neil Down left?

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9 hours ago, english zloty said:

I think the very senior cs responsible for this has just retired. 

Are you sure? The comments of Mr Jones made it clear that the person Peel Commissioners held responsible, about whom they complained, and who is now being investigated by an Advocate, is the Chief Secretary, the head of the civil service. Surely if the head of the civil service had just retired there would have been press coverage?

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14 minutes ago, Uhtred said:

Are you sure? The comments of Mr Jones made it clear that the person Peel Commissioners held responsible, about whom they complained, and who is now being investigated by an Advocate, is the Chief Secretary, the head of the civil service. Surely if the head of the civil service had just retired there would have been press coverage?

Electoral Registration Officer reported direct to CS. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-32129843

Edited by english zloty

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