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Max Power

Upskirting should be made a criminal offence says charity!

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You are all missing the point, and dreadfully mischaracterising the charity.

It isn’t their proposal, it’s in the draft sexual offences bill that Government has put out for consultation.

No, it isn’t an offence now. There was similar ill informed comment in England when it was introduced in a private members bill and some right wing Tory knuckle dragging Neanderthal talked the bill out. Are you proud that is who the majority of you take after.

As for the “Government has better things to do” stance, just because there are major problems or issues doesn’t mean that life stops and only those issues can be dealt with.

Most Government is carried on at executive level and administrative level. Concepts and policy don’t take hours to debate. I’d be more frightened if Tynwald spent all its time debating cutting the civil service, dismantling health care, etc. Etc.

Last week saw the 100th anniversary of the first election in U.K. where women voted. Legislation passed at the height of social and military crisis in 1917/18. Dealing with a crisis and responding to social change and requirements aren’t mutually exclusive.

Our Sexual Offences Act is half a century out of date. This is a good piece of legislation.

As for the horrible characterisation of the employee and volunteers who run the charity, shame on you. It’s not small, it delivers support to victims of crime everyday not just victims, but witnesses going to court. The volunteers are highly skilled and trained. It provides the only qualified sexual assault assistance to victims on Island.

Just because you don’t hear about it Day by day.

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It's a modern phenomenon enabled by the development of inexpensive miniature digital cameras, hence the possible need for law now when there was no need for such law 50 years ago - in the 1960s most girls would have noticed if some perv was fumbling around on the floor trying to point a box brownie and flashbulb head up their skirts.

Law needs to keep up with the use and abuse of technology, in general it doesn't hence the recent stuff about finally admitting the content of mobile phone text messages as evidence despite us having had text messaging for several decades. There are probably many other tech-related laws needed which haven't been drafted / passed yet. Cheap technology empowers people, including empowering people to do stuff which is wrong. 

 

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45 minutes ago, John Wright said:

As for the horrible characterisation of the employee and volunteers who run the charity, shame on you. It’s not small, it delivers support to victims of crime everyday not just victims, but witnesses going to court. The volunteers are highly skilled and trained. It provides the only qualified sexual assault assistance to victims on Island.

Well said John. 

If the members of a worthwhile charity, can't comment on a vile practice and proposed law change that is within their area of expertise without being called "munters", why would any woman would speak out on any issue on this island?

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Hardly surprising that it is the usual low brows and knuckle draggers who are scoffing at this sort of thing.

And the usual victim blaming.

MF at its usual high standard.

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I have to admit to an interest in Victim Support. 20 years ago I was appointed to chair a committee to examine setting up. I worked with Merseyside Confederation of VS, arranged meetings, fundraised, located and helped physically convert premises, undertook the training, recruited volunteers and the first paid worker.

Im proud of where it’s got to, what it has achieved and the services it delivers.

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25 minutes ago, The Lurker said:

Would up-skirting not be classed as a sexual/indecent assault?

it will be classed as murder eventually.

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As far as I'm aware this isn't an issue over here should it be reported I'd imagine it would fall under the public order offence or provoking behaviour but theres no harm in having it included in a new bill 

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44 minutes ago, thommo2010 said:

As far as I'm aware this isn't an issue over here should it be reported I'd imagine it would fall under the public order offence or provoking behaviour but theres no harm in having it included in a new bill 

I don’t think it falls under either, or under indecency. It’s done surreptitiously so no one is caused alarm, distress or is provoked, unless they are caught in the act.

Its the later making known, and publication that does that damage.

As it’s not an offence it’s not recorded, so we don’t know if it’s a problem.

We have lots of offences on the statute book where “it isn’t an issue over here” but they cover things civilised society should protect against. 

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5 hours ago, John Wright said:

You are all missing the point, and dreadfully mischaracterising the charity.

It isn’t their proposal, it’s in the draft sexual offences bill that Government has put out for consultation.

No, it isn’t an offence now. There was similar ill informed comment in England when it was introduced in a private members bill and some right wing Tory knuckle dragging Neanderthal talked the bill out. Are you proud that is who the majority of you take after.

As for the “Government has better things to do” stance, just because there are major problems or issues doesn’t mean that life stops and only those issues can be dealt with.

Most Government is carried on at executive level and administrative level. Concepts and policy don’t take hours to debate. I’d be more frightened if Tynwald spent all its time debating cutting the civil service, dismantling health care, etc. Etc.

Last week saw the 100th anniversary of the first election in U.K. where women voted. Legislation passed at the height of social and military crisis in 1917/18. Dealing with a crisis and responding to social change and requirements aren’t mutually exclusive.

Our Sexual Offences Act is half a century out of date. This is a good piece of legislation.

As for the horrible characterisation of the employee and volunteers who run the charity, shame on you. It’s not small, it delivers support to victims of crime everyday not just victims, but witnesses going to court. The volunteers are highly skilled and trained. It provides the only qualified sexual assault assistance to victims on Island.

Just because you don’t hear about it Day by day.

Not missing the point at all. Simply checking for clarification. Your para 3 answers it

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1 hour ago, John Wright said:

I don’t think it falls under either, or under indecency. It’s done surreptitiously so no one is caused alarm, distress or is provoked, unless they are caught in the act.

Its the later making known, and publication that does that damage.

As it’s not an offence it’s not recorded, so we don’t know if it’s a problem.

We have lots of offences on the statute book where “it isn’t an issue over here” but they cover things civilised society should protect against. 

That's what I'm saying John if someone was caught in the act doing it it would probably fit public order section 3 at the minute. 

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1 hour ago, thommo2010 said:

That's what I'm saying John if someone was caught in the act doing it it would probably fit public order section 3 at the minute. 

That wasn’t  what you said.

You said “if it was reported” that’s different.

Reporting can take place because someone was actually caught in the act or because the person who upskirted later “publishes” the photos.

One is s.3 the other doesn’t currently constitute any offence.

 

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I suspect that upskirting is nothing new.  It were called something else when I were a lad, all those years ago (but for the life of me I can't remember what it was called).

Anyhow, in the 11-18 school that I attended those of us at the younger end of the age scale would gather at the foot of the staircase peering upwards wondering what the sixth formers were looking at doing the same thing. The interesting thing was that when the girls went up the stairs there were two lines, those who walked on the outside wall and those who walked on the stairwell side. I later learned, as we all did, that those who walked on the stairwell side did it deliberately.

Just sayin'.

Edited by Andy Onchan

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