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Donald Trumps

CoMin Cosset Civil Service

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Good to see Daphne Caine and Julie Edge questioning value for money on further indulgence of PSPR

There really should be closer examination of the huge sums directed towards these people, much of which appears to achieve very little



*Not knocking those of course who contribute so much in health & education

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Posted (edited)

What would be more of interest is the solutions this pair are proposing as an alternative. Its easy to say someone else's idea is shite.

Edited by piebaps
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Troubles me more that no one in 'in office' has taken advice to ensure the taxpayer is getting something approaching 'value for money' on this continuing fiasco

Ms Caine & Ms Edge are to be commended for at least challenging the Gods of CoMin

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Have to agree with Piebaps on this. Congratulate them for what, asking a question? No solution, no alternative. Straight from the Beecroft book of how to not be a successful MHK

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1 hour ago, piebaps said:

What would be more of interest is the solutions this pair are proposing as an alternative. Its easy to say someone else's idea is shite.

Pick any moment in the history of Tynwald, dip into the records, and realise that the default setting of Members is saying that someone else's idea is shite.

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Posted (edited)

The Govt ( comin and the CS ) set their selves the task of coming up with the ideas, sometimes ignoring Backbenchers ideas.

What is wrong with MHKs asking the question and the Govt providing the solution?

This idea that the questioner should have a solution is just a means to shut the person up.

Edited by Kopek
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3 hours ago, PmJ said:

Have to agree with Piebaps on this. Congratulate them for what, asking a question? No solution, no alternative. Straight from the Beecroft book of how to not be a successful MHK

In days gone by it’s the sort of thing LV would have challenged as the only opposition to COMIN. You don’t really need a solution. Effectively challenging is often enough. 

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3 hours ago, Kopek said:

This idea that the questioner should have a solution is just a means to shut the person up.

No it absolutely isn’t - if you’re going to reject the proposal of some other Member, whether they’re government or not, it behoves you to explain why their idea is poor and how you’d go about improving matters. A. that’s what a responsible and effective Member would do and B. you’d score political points through looking better than them. Just sniping from the sidelines with no substance to offer (as someone pointed out also known as the Beecroft Method) is bullshit.

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1 hour ago, Uhtred said:

Just sniping from the sidelines with no substance to offer (as someone pointed out also known as the Beecroft Method) is bullshit.

Beecroft is dire but at least she has gone very quiet indeed of late. I suppose you could say that one of the few successes Howard Quayle has had is totally neutralizing her and her passive aggressive moaning about very little. 

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29 minutes ago, MrPB said:

Beecroft is dire but at least she has gone very quiet indeed of late. I suppose you could say that one of the few successes Howard Quayle has had is totally neutralizing her and her passive aggressive moaning about very little. 

Don’t pull the tiger’s tail

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56 minutes ago, MrPB said:

Beecroft is dire but at least she has gone very quiet indeed of late. I suppose you could say that one of the few successes Howard Quayle has had is totally neutralizing her and her passive aggressive moaning about very little. 

She's been fairly ill. 

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1 hour ago, Neil Down said:

Don’t pull the tiger’s tail

What tigers tail? 

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10 minutes ago, MrPB said:

What tigers tail? 

It’s a saying - GIYF

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5 hours ago, Uhtred said:

No it absolutely isn’t - if you’re going to reject the proposal of some other Member, whether they’re government or not, it behoves you to explain why their idea is poor and how you’d go about improving matters.

I don't really think you do need to.  After all you can tell if your car isn't working properly without actually knowing what the fault is or how to correct it.  If the mechanic started complaining because you could diagnose exactly what was wrong and say what the solution was, you'd think they weren't much good at their job, not you.  And of course in the case of Tynwald, the government has got all the information and lots of experts who are supposed to know what to do - and lots of ways to stop those outside government knowing what the situation is. 

And in practice, opposition politicians also haven't got much time to develop alternatives on any particular topic, given how few there are of them[1] and how many areas there are to be covered.  Research and seeking out and assessing alternatives takes time and persistence.  So for a lot of things they may be aware of no more than that things don't seem right, but can't offer a solution.  It doesn't mean that they should keep quiet about things that are going wrong.

 

[1]  I mean the 'backbenchers' who actually oppose, ask questions and so on, rather than sit back and take the money.

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Well Rog, one wouldn’t challenge the opinion of the mechanic because they’re a mechanic and one isn’t! But all Tynwald members are equal (in the main) and doing the same parliamentary job, so if member A says “The answer is a huge shed with a bell on the top” and member B says “No it isn’t, that’s stupid” member B should step up and illustrate why...that’s member B’s job (for which they’re paid fairly well).

I don’t accept the “there’s no time” argument either Rog - if you’re a member voicing an opinion, then make time to research the argument to back up your views...that’s what you’re  paid for. I would absolutely accept however a comment along the lines of “Look, I’m no expert on this, but my initial reading of the matter suggest that the shed with the bell on top isn’t the best way forward because of blah, blah and blah, but I accept that my analysis isn’t deep enough to be definitive”. 

The long-standing Tynwald habit of “That’s shit”, “I don’t like that” “That won’t work”, “A man in the pub said that’ll kill people” unsupported by any rational comment is bollocks and the clowns who practice it need to be called out.

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