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4 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

It's a pity they can't use the emergency powers to stop the whole farce.

No chance there is no limit to the depth some will plunge to in order to enhance their own sense of vanity.

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I've explained this before Derek. From a friend working for a firm who is responsible for lots of services  , not Auldyn etc , while they had a concept plan from day one ie what the finished job would

It's not Harmer's direct fault. Nor any of those we elect. APART from not having the departmental and relevant experience and balls to stand up to and question the reams of bullshitters and chanc

But the problem isn't the horse trams.  It's the corporate culture of the Manx civil service.  Rather than accept the reality of what their main job is, which is maintain existing structures in the mo

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Well I take no pleasure in this finally being announced as I said it would be . Yes I was wrong by a week and was also very reluctant to absolutely confirm it as was aware it would be a shit storm when announced . And it will I'm sure . I knew my source was solid but still wary. Once again DOI are getting out of jail again it would seem. Also can I say thank you for not giving me a hard time when I mentioned it initially as tbh I expected it even though it would have been unjustified . I've just seen the headlines so will read the report and see if they are holding anything back that I know off ..I'd be surprised if there not . Sorry as this is sad on many levels . 3 sets of plans proposed and two rejected and Murray Lambdens efforts whether you support the horse trams or not its been a total disgrace whats gone on from day one . 

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Ohhh having looked at what is being said again the plan is to have the work finished by xmas and snagging to take place and all finished by end of March in time for season. Correct me if I've missed them actually saying that in news flashes . Again thats the alleged plan . 

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2 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Thanks , not mentioned either is the likelyhood of Queens Prom area to now be tarmac on land side and not granite as planned . Also no mention of removal of roundabouts which I believe is also happening in this 'revised' scheme !! 

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The friggin horse trams have cost millions in planning / stables/ and man hours correcting issues all to make a loss ! 

Businesses on the prom have been dragged down , whilst delay after delay have discouraged people from visiting Douglas, another monumental cock up in the ever growing list of monumental costly cock ups presided over in LA LA land ! Reality is maybe just beginning to bite !

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Posted (edited)
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Farcical. Either reinstate the horse tram tracks the length of the prom or don’t.

Stopping it roughly 25% short will probably reduce those using it further so there will be less income whilst probably having little effect on costs on the annual running costs so it will just increase the annual loss. Most of the current capital costs for renewing will have been incurred on the new depot at the old Summerland end or relaying twin tracks 75% the length of the prom in rail much heavier and therefore much more expensive than required just so potentially they could run electric trams on it.

The savings are possibly 10% or so off the costs of just relaying the tracks, probably less around 1% of the costs of the whole scheme and probably far less than they have wasted in installing much more expensive rail than required just so Longworth's wet dream of running electric trams on it could potentially happen. In my view it is much better to design and build something you can afford rather than go for the luxury top end option and then find you cannot afford to finish.

Edited by Lost Login
To make it clear that income did not mean profit
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1 hour ago, Lost Login said:

Farcical. Either reinstate the horse tram tracks the length of the prom or don’t.

Stopping it roughly 25% short will probably reduce those using it further so there will be less income whilst probably having little effect on costs. Annual running costs most probably will not alter greatly and most of the current capital costs for renewing will have been incurred on the new depot at the old Summerland end or relaying twin tracks 75% the length of the prom in rail much heavier and therefore much more expensive than required just so potentially they could run electric trams on it.

The savings are possibly 10% or so off the costs of just relaying the tracks, probably less around 1% of the costs of the whole scheme and probably far less than they have wasted in installing much more expensive rail than required just so Longworth's wet dream of running electric trams on it could potentially happen. In my view it is much better to design and build something you can afford rather than go for the luxury top end option and then find you cannot afford to finish.

LL, there is no income it makes a loss ! that's the point in these new times we find ourselves !

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It's like this.

Boys, can you get it finished for April 2021?  It's a voting year and we did say it'll be done.

 

err no way mate, still lots to do, a decade next March suit ya?

 

no, no, no, that's not good enough.  Miss out the rest of the tram way, lob some tar on the dug up bits, forget the expensive granite blocks, and generally just sweep up a bit .. April 2021?

 

yeah, no problem, you'll need to sweep up though - and maybe lay some tar.
 

Done!  People will look at us a marvel how we got the prom done to time and just a little over budget!

 

What about the missing bits and stuff that looks nowt like the plans they paid for?

 

Fuck 'em.  If they want that done they'll have to vote for me to see it gets done. They'd vote for shit on a stick if you promise them manure in a bag.- the suckers.  That bit outside the Sefton looks nice though, just like we said it would. Now, about that granite for my garden ..

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9 hours ago, Southfork said:

Yes complete abuse of emergency powers to do what they were always going to do anyway. These are government departments that we simply can’t trust as they will even abuse a global pandemic where island residents have died in order to overrule what the public actually wanted. 

the sensible public wanted the whole lot fucked away with which was overruled in the dream stages. followed by single track on the seaward side.   

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6 minutes ago, asitis said:

LL, there is no income it makes a loss ! that's the point in these new times we find ourselves !

I know, but it has income from passenger fares so if that reduces losses increase. I have edited original post to try and make that clearer.

Edited by Lost Login
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4 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

I know, but it has income from passenger fares so if that reduces losses increase. I have edited original post to try and make that clearer.

and if you have no trams and no passengers savings increase.

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If they wanted to reduce costs on "railway heritage" to me the logical steps would be not to use rails on the prom that are probably twice and possibly three times more expensive than they needed to be just on the off chance they run an electric tram occasionally along it.

Does the electric railway need to be twin track between Douglas and Laxey. You could run an hourly service in each direction with a single track and no passing places.

 

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Just now, WTF said:

and if you have no trams and no passengers savings increase.

So we get rid of everything that does not make a direct profit? That would be all Manx national heritage sites including museums. Presumably that would also see the closure of the Villa Marina and Gaiety. I don't think the NSC make a profit or the various parks and gardens around the IoM, why are we loosing money maintaining old railway lines as cycle tracks. Cut all government support for any motor events on the IoM.

To me the horse trams, heritage railways are one of the attractions that still bring visitors to the Island. Are the costs worth it? Government would say they are but I have no idea although I would certainly agree the costs are too high. Under Longworth it seems that there has basically been a spending frenzy. Fancy new buses? Spend whatever you want.

I am never sure with regard to the horse trams whether it is the cost that people principally object to or the fact they, for a few months of the year, reduce the amount of free car parking in Douglas and might delay your journey for a couple of minutes. 

  

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  • slinkydevil changed the title to Promenade - Megathread

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