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1 hour ago, Numbnuts said:

My reliable source tells me that Auldyn have asked for a disclaimer from DOI  with regards these services as they dont consider them safe . If true and I'm sure it is I dont blame them .

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Not sure why Auldyn / Colas or whoever are even involved. Manx Forums expert team should have been given the contract. Could have been completed in a year at most and only cost about £50,000. What a waste letting construction companies do the job.

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I've explained this before Derek. From a friend working for a firm who is responsible for lots of services  , not Auldyn etc , while they had a concept plan from day one ie what the finished job would

It's not Harmer's direct fault. Nor any of those we elect. APART from not having the departmental and relevant experience and balls to stand up to and question the reams of bullshitters and chanc

But the problem isn't the horse trams.  It's the corporate culture of the Manx civil service.  Rather than accept the reality of what their main job is, which is maintain existing structures in the mo

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Could 'Culpable Negligence' be applied to the actual workers who do not question the site drawings, perhaps for malicious reasons, on the placing of obvious errors???

It happens quite a few times, workers do something even tho they know it looks wrong just to give 'those smart asses in the planning office' an embarrassing u-turn???

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14 minutes ago, Kopek said:

Could 'Culpable Negligence' be applied to the actual workers who do not question the site drawings, perhaps for malicious reasons, on the placing of obvious errors???

Try questioning an architect. 

"Are you absolutely sure this is correct?" doesn't go down well.

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3 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

Try questioning an architect. 

"Are you absolutely sure this is correct?" doesn't go down well.

Very true and as they get paid big bucks what they say goes as they have the letters after their name and often arogance too ! Sites and jobs I've been on we have often queried works , shaken are heads and did what we are told.  I mean what do the low lifes know about anything , surprisingly lots but are not getting paid to offer it up ! 

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43 minutes ago, Numbnuts said:

Very true and as they get paid big bucks what they say goes as they have the letters after their name and often arogance too ! Sites and jobs I've been on we have often queried works , shaken are heads and did what we are told.  I mean what do the low lifes know about anything , surprisingly lots but are not getting paid to offer it up ! 

I think this is one reason why things have got even worse since they got rid of the direct labour force.  Government-employed manual workers are more likely to speak up because they are harder to sack if they say the 'wrong' thing and often will have more knowledge of having worked in the area or on similar jobs before.  When work is carried out by a long chain of contractors and sub-contractors everyone just keeps quiet and tries to work out who they will blame when it goes wrong.

Of course if management are more concerned with protecting their egos than doing a good job, then they want to get rid of the manual workers for that very reason. 

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11 hours ago, Numbnuts said:

Very true and as they get paid big bucks what they say goes as they have the letters after their name and often arogance too ! Sites and jobs I've been on we have often queried works , shaken are heads and did what we are told.  I mean what do the low lifes know about anything , surprisingly lots but are not getting paid to offer it up ! 

That's interesting, and perhaps something that was more of an issue in years gone by or on jobs without properly managed or implemented contracts? I have never experienced it. Architects and engineers might not like their work being questioned but that is true of most people. I can't think of any occasion where they haven't either changed their design or agreed to change in specification where things have been demonstrably wrong. There is often a difference between working to legal and statutory requirements or 'a reasonable standard', and thinking that it could be done better or to a higher standard.

An often used phase is "if it looks wrong, it is wrong" but the client pays for changes to the spec or design, not the design team, so you have to be able to demonstrate *why* it is wrong. 

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10 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

I think this is one reason why things have got even worse since they got rid of the direct labour force.  Government-employed manual workers are more likely to speak up because they are harder to sack if they say the 'wrong' thing and often will have more knowledge of having worked in the area or on similar jobs before.  When work is carried out by a long chain of contractors and sub-contractors everyone just keeps quiet and tries to work out who they will blame when it goes wrong.

Of course if management are more concerned with protecting their egos than doing a good job, then they want to get rid of the manual workers for that very reason. 

Management do not accept questioning as a part of the role of a labourer, they are there to do what they are told whether right or wrong, if you do ask any ackward questions your days are numbered and they will drive you out. I know plenty who have been sent to the naughty corner for questioning the management and are kept away in case they speak out, and not only in the CS but manual workers also. 

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11 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

I think this is one reason why things have got even worse since they got rid of the direct labour force.  Government-employed manual workers are more likely to speak up because they are harder to sack if they say the 'wrong' thing and often will have more knowledge of having worked in the area or on similar jobs before.  When work is carried out by a long chain of contractors and sub-contractors everyone just keeps quiet and tries to work out who they will blame when it goes wrong.

Of course if management are more concerned with protecting their egos than doing a good job, then they want to get rid of the manual workers for that very reason. 

Fair point , when you have a number of independent trades working on a project it can lead to disputes between contractors and their individual employees which can escalate into sabotage .

If you then have a management system where nobody is ultimately responsible  when it goes wrong those in the system pass the "blame parcel"  and as they are invariably all culpable to a greater or lesser extent they close ranks fearful that it may be them who gets the elbow.

The situation is exacerbated (in central and local government in particular) when you have a manager ( with an autocratic management style) appointed who is clearly out of his/her depth with a workforce ( including perhaps some curmudgeonly employees close to retirement who are time served craftsmen 😉) .

He/she feels threatened by these employees , disregards their views  and not surprisingly they then "do as they are instructed" and it all "goes up the pictures" . 

The line manager  then takes steps to ease out  the employees and employee those who are compliant but are incompetent and when it goes wrong again as it inevitably will  ....... 

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2 hours ago, paswt said:

Fair point , when you have a number of independent trades working on a project it can lead to disputes between contractors and their individual employees which can escalate into sabotage .

If you then have a management system where nobody is ultimately responsible  when it goes wrong those in the system pass the "blame parcel"  and as they are invariably all culpable to a greater or lesser extent they close ranks fearful that it may be them who gets the elbow.

The situation is exacerbated (in central and local government in particular) when you have a manager ( with an autocratic management style) appointed who is clearly out of his/her depth with a workforce ( including perhaps some curmudgeonly employees close to retirement who are time served craftsmen 😉) .

He/she feels threatened by these employees , disregards their views  and not surprisingly they then "do as they are instructed" and it all "goes up the pictures" . 

The line manager  then takes steps to ease out  the employees and employee those who are compliant but are incompetent and when it goes wrong again as it inevitably will  ....... 

You must have worked at the DOI!

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On Manx Radio yesterday morning Tim Baker MHK described himself as a bold and ambitious operator.

He has to 31st March before his newly found exuberance of ego vanishes into a puddle on the promenade.

 

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