Promenade - Megathread

[Beelzebub3]

3 hours ago, offshoremanxman said:

The end result being we have to ask what we’ve actually paid £25M + for? Once the walkway is done as a separate project and then the next section of the tramway it’s probably going to be somewhere near £45M. It’s hard to believe that some people aren’t literally making mega bucks out of incompetence on this scale. 

Meanwhile in Liverpool someone is rubbing their hands and saying thank goodness the Douglas prom works are late again and the good folk of the IOM have forgot about us scallies!

[Beelzebub3]

3 hours ago, Omobono said:

it will be impossible to give an exact date for the completion of the promenade works , there is a defects period yet ,and in my opinion much of the work allegedly completed is substandard and should be required to be done again  there is also damage to private properties that needs to be addressed , 

I don't know who came up with a design for the points on the horse tram rails ,but that, and the installation of the track looks like its also going to cause a significant delay , 

Add the possibility of contractual disputes ,and areas that might very well go to arbitration , we will be lucky if we see the prom taking shape before the springtime ,

in fairness to Crookall he has taken on a job most people would run a mile from ,and with the added possibility of a public enquiry into the cost and delivery of the whole promenade scheme , please give the Lad a chance !

 

 

Crookall knew exactly what he was letting himself in for, he was there before, so none of this will come as a shock to him, he and NB/JR are as close as the hairs on a horses ass, not sure about the other fella IL but we can rest assured this is not over and we will be paying a lot more to get it in fit for purpose. I will say it again the CS will walk all over TC I would love to be proved wrong although I am doubtful.

[Max Power]

6 minutes ago, Beelzebub3 said:

Crookall knew exactly what he was letting himself in for, he was there before, so none of this will come as a shock to him, he and NB/JR are as close as the hairs on a horses ass, not sure about the other fella IL but we can rest assured this is not over and we will be paying a lot more to get it in fit for purpose. I will say it again the CS will walk all over TC I would love to be proved wrong although I am doubtful.

A whole generation of children are growing up with the assumption that the DoI Minister's full time job is to apologise for the Doi!

[Gladys]

15 minutes ago, Max Power said:

A whole generation of children are growing up with the assumption that the DoI Minister's full time job is to apologise for the Doi!

More likely, very few will understand what to promenade actually means; they think it means to fuck up royally. 

[Driver2020]

Already had to redo one of the road crossings in Kirk Michael because the DoI gave them the wrong levels.

[WTF]

4 hours ago, Peter Layman said:

You wouldn't trust the DoI to build sandcastles

what they do tends to have a similar life expectancy

[CallMeCurious]

2 hours ago, kevster said:

The need to send them back was down to the railways inspector

The need was the points were defective or non-complaint in someway. Luckily someone who knew what they were doing spotted it. Shame the people paid to design, manufacture or install them didn't spot it.

Inspection or snagging should not just be at the end of the project, it should be at every stage once it gets to site. Otherwise bad workmanship goes unchallenged until the very end and then you end up with reams of defects. Half of which get fudged becasue everyone just wants the job over with by then. 

In the old days there was an experienced clerk of works who was on site frequently (or based there on large projects) for the client who had relevant experience. Their role was both supervisory and advisory while acting as a liasion between client and contractor. And being fair also keep an eye on the designers too.

Then we got planning supervisors, project managers et al and they got shunted out.

Presumably the track or points design was signed off and so there will be a trail of contractual responsibility that will cover the cost of the repair/alteration. Assuming it wasn't damaged in situ.

 

 

 

[Gladys]

3 minutes ago, CallMeCurious said:

The need was the points were defective or non-complaint in someway. Luckily someone who knew what they were doing spotted it. Shame the people paid to design, manufacture or install them didn't spot it.

Inspection or snagging should not just be at the end of the project, it should be at every stage once it gets to site. Otherwise bad workmanship goes unchallenged until the very end and then you end up with reams of defects. Half of which get fudged becasue everyone just wants the job over with by then. 

In the old days there was an experienced clerk of works who was on site frequently (or based there on large projects) for the client who had relevant experience. Their role was both supervisory and advisory while acting as a liasion between client and contractor. And being fair also keep an eye on the designers too.

Then we got planning supervisors, project managers et al and they got shunted out.

Presumably the track or points design was signed off and so there will be a trail of contractual responsibility that will cover the cost of the repair/alteration. Assuming it wasn't damaged in situ.

 

 

 

That is so depressing. 

[CallMeCurious]

On 10/18/2021 at 9:36 PM, Roger Mexico said:

As always you need to go to the original to get all the juicy details.  The actual reply (which only came today is on the FoI search with a title "Douglas Promenade Digital Counter" and was submitted on 27 September.  The actual request and  reply are as follows:

"Dear Sirs

The Department of Infrastructure installed a digital counter at the bottom of summer hill the cost at a reported cost to the tax payer of £16,000.

Please advise:

1. The actual cost including delivery set up purchase and installation for the digital counter.

2. Where is the digital counter now and does it still work.

3. What measures were taken into account before placing it beside a promenade wall and did the manufacturers warranty include damage by sea water .

4. If the digital counter is no longer working , what did the Department do with the broken digital counter .

Please supply all emails , letters ect in regards the damage caused to the digital counter."

Our response to your request is as follows:

1. The cost of the digital counter was circa £19,000 + costs of internal labour. This figure includes purchase cost, electrical supply and setup costs and software updates.

2. The Digital Display Kiosk is not working and has been disposed of accordingly.

3. Please refer to attached supporting correspondence and documents.

4. As per point 2; any salvageable components such as the LED display screens have been retained to see if they can be utilised elsewhere within our asset groups

Please see Appendix 1 for emails regarding the purchase, setup and damage to the digital counter.

Please see Appendix 2 containing documents relating to the purchase, setup and damage to the digital counter.

For all the real info you need to go to those appendices , especially the emails in A (as usual the servlet problem means I can't link directly).  But this para from page 37/38 sums it up:

I just wanted to let you know that the digital display kiosk which had the pedestrian and cyclist counter inside I originally procured for the Prom is essentially ‘knackered’, despite my specification that it must be constructed to withstand a high salt air/marine environment and showed the supplier where it would be going on the walkway in proximity to the sea it has corroded very badly on the outside of the casing and has so much water ingress that internal components have corroded and are not functioning, this is due mostly because of the vents for the air flow which allowed waves crashing over to enter the unit.

Naturally because of this disaster they've decided they now need three of them.

The technology exists to use CCTV images to do the exact same thing from a weatherproof housing using software to frame moving objects and categorise them by speed and shape as pedestrain or cyclist or wave.

https://www.retailsensing.com/people-counting-outdoors.html

Not all stainless steel is marine grade and often its the details like the fixings and simple things like a small electric heater inside to prevent condensation forming on the internal components. 

 

[CallMeCurious]

4 minutes ago, Gladys said:

That is so depressing. 

Not as depressing as an 8 month project still not finished after 40 months and rising.

[Non-Believer]

Is it worth opening a book on how many visits to Tynwald for supplementary funding will be required; and to the tune of how much?

[Peter Layman]

4 hours ago, Roxanne said:

That is hugely insulting to the Minister in charge. TC is nothing like his predecessor. He’s a realist who is determined to shake things up at the DOI and get it working properly again. He’s up against a huge task for sure but if anyone can turn things around then I believe he has the skills to do it. 

I'm all for giving them a chance but FFS he's hardly left us with any kind of anticipation has he?

[WTF]

1 hour ago, Gladys said:

That is so depressing. 

but hardly surprising , this place really is fuck up central.

[Ramseyboi]

WTAF is this and how much did it cost!!!!

[Roxanne]

41 minutes ago, Peter Layman said:

I'm all for giving them a chance but FFS he's hardly left us with any kind of anticipation has he?

Sort out your pluralisation and your tenses and post that again.  I'd like to reply but I'm not sure what to reply to.