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Promenade - Megathread


slinkydevil
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6 hours ago, Roxanne said:

That is hugely insulting to the Minister in charge. TC is nothing like his predecessor. He’s a realist who is determined to shake things up at the DOI and get it working properly again. He’s up against a huge task for sure but if anyone can turn things around then I believe he has the skills to do it. 

Fair assessment imo.  Lets re visit this in a few years.  

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30 minutes ago, slinkydevil said:

I'd like to think one day every person on the Isle of Man gets to work on the Great Promenade. 

No other jobs, we just all head to Douglas and do our bit. We all get paid the same, wear the same overalls and eat the same lunch together with hearty smiles, and no inequality.

Watching our children, and our children's children head off for rail laying, lamp repositioning and coloured concrete correction on the Great Promenade would fill me with pride and bring this Island's community together for generations to come. Put the pride back into the people with a bit of hard graft.

 

What!!?? And no mobile phones , thats not happening ! 

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Tim Crookall was spot on, he didn’t make false promises he gave an honest answer to a really naive question.   He has not got a crystal ball, it will be finished as soon as possible and that is the long and the short of it.   I am more concerned with the quality of the work, some of it is badly finished and heaven knows how it will look in a few years time.   However it will make a suitable background for that scruffy,awful fairground that no doubt will get permission to get dumped there if the T.T. Goes ahead. 

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3 hours ago, CallMeCurious said:

The need was the points were defective or non-complaint in someway. Luckily someone who knew what they were doing spotted it. Shame the people paid to design, manufacture or install them didn't spot it.

[...] Presumably the track or points design was signed off and so there will be a trail of contractual responsibility that will cover the cost of the repair/alteration. Assuming it wasn't damaged in situ.

The only surprise on this was that there was actually any such inspection done.  We have no proper rail inspectorate of the Island - as far as I know the work has to be done as just another hat worn by the Health and Safety people. Because of course we have to have a special 'Manx solution' that doesn't involve any of those pesky outside experts telling us what to do.

As far as assigning contractual responsibility goes, I think we can be fairly sure that in a legal fight between our local amateurish civil servants and the local branches of multinational construction companies with all their resources and experience, there's only going to be one outcome.

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7 hours ago, hissingsid said:

Tim Crookall was spot on, he didn’t make false promises he gave an honest answer to a really naive question.   He has not got a crystal ball, it will be finished as soon as possible and that is the long and the short of it.   I am more concerned with the quality of the work, some of it is badly finished and heaven knows how it will look in a few years time.   However it will make a suitable background for that scruffy,awful fairground that no doubt will get permission to get dumped there if the T.T. Goes ahead. 

If only Harmer hadn't had the foresight to have no planned end date. We might have seen him as CM now. Lauding him for his great achievement of successfully meeting the target of not failing to meet an end date, as there was no end date.

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6 minutes ago, ptarmigan said:

Yep not entirely convinced that not having an end date is a good strategy in the circumstances.  You’d kind of think a multimillion pound project would have more than…’you aren’t going to catch me out with an end date’.

Well whatever new strategy crookhall has come up with he may be disappointed to find that the project will have an original end date and a new updated planned end date. The nature of the contract make this obligatory in contract law. 

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13 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

It’s insulting to the promenade traders for one. Many of whom have been driven into almost bankruptcy by this mess. And they still can’t give them an end date to the devastation and keep on playing politics so they aren’t shown up as the incompetence wasters that they are. It’s just insulting. End of story. I give Crookall three months and I actually hope he ends up in there less than that if he has any personal integrity at all. 

Extract from the contract for interest.

Clause 11 - Identified and defined terms

11.2 (1) The Accepted Programme is the programme identified in the Contract Data or is the latest programme accepted by the Project Manager. The latest programme accepted by the Project Manager supersedes previous Accepted Programmes.

Clause 31 – The Programme

31.1   If a programme is not identified in the Contract Data, the Contractor submits a first programme to the Project Manager for acceptance within the period stated in the Contract Data.

31.2   The Contractor shows on each programme which he submits for acceptance

·     the starting date, access dates, Key Dates and Completion Date,

·     planned Completion,

·     the order and timing of the operations which the Contractor plans to do in order to Provide the Works,

·     the order and timing of the work of the Employer and Others as last agreed with them by the Contractor or, if not so agreed, as stated in the Works Information,

·     the dates when the Contractor plans to meet each Condition stated for the Key Dates and to complete other work needed to allow the Employer and Others to do their work,

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One can almost feel the relief in the DOI offices - "It's ok chaps, new guy's onside, pressure's off, we can just amble along now at our own pace, Govt will have no option but to supply funds on demand in order to get it finished. Chill out, life's cool. Now whose turn is it to make the brews?"

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30 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Extract from the contract for interest.

Clause 11 - Identified and defined terms

11.2 (1) The Accepted Programme is the programme identified in the Contract Data or is the latest programme accepted by the Project Manager. The latest programme accepted by the Project Manager supersedes previous Accepted Programmes.

Clause 31 – The Programme

31.1   If a programme is not identified in the Contract Data, the Contractor submits a first programme to the Project Manager for acceptance within the period stated in the Contract Data.

31.2   The Contractor shows on each programme which he submits for acceptance

·     the starting date, access dates, Key Dates and Completion Date,

·     planned Completion,

·     the order and timing of the operations which the Contractor plans to do in order to Provide the Works,

·     the order and timing of the work of the Employer and Others as last agreed with them by the Contractor or, if not so agreed, as stated in the Works Information,

·     the dates when the Contractor plans to meet each Condition stated for the Key Dates and to complete other work needed to allow the Employer and Others to do their work,

Contracts aren't written in stone, which has been pretty obvious throughout this.  Amendments can be negotiated and agreed.  However, the absence of a completion date is going to make project management difficult and could amount to an open cheque for the contractor, unless there is very tight management from the DOI. 

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14 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Contracts aren't written in stone, which has been pretty obvious throughout this.  Amendments can be negotiated and agreed.  However, the absence of a completion date is going to make project management difficult and could amount to an open cheque for the contractor, unless there is very tight management from the DOI. 

They are written in stone metaphorically. The project manager decides when the completion date is. You cannot not have one. Seems you are as ill informed as Timmy.

This would change if the contract was completed or terminated. This would be when Auldyns role of principal contractor ended. If that was the case then Timmy would be able to choose any date he likes....or in this case have no date.

I am not aware that the contract has been terminated (and the works clearly are not completed) so seems that you, as well as Timmy are just kidding yourselves but not the GMP.

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10 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

They are written in stone metaphorically. The project manager decides when the completion date is. You cannot not have one. Seems you are as ill informed as Timmy.

This would change if the contract was completed or terminated. This would be when Auldyns role of principal contractor ended. If that was the case then Timmy would be able to choose any date he likes....or in this case have no date.

I am not aware that the contract has been terminated (and the works clearly are not completed) so seems that you, as well as Timmy are just kidding yourselves but not the GMP.

You missed my second sentence. 

And @Non-Believer my comment was tongue in cheek. 

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