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Promenade - Megathread


slinkydevil
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31 minutes ago, Gladys said:

I think a bit more was said than that.  Inadequate signage was an issue. 

 

I went via the railway lines from Union Mills to Crosby yesterday. The crossing at Glen Darragh Road is surprisingly open/unmarked etc especially following this inquest. One tiny blue sign saying give way. All gates wide open and inviting someone to go straight over the road. 

 

I know there should be common sense when approaching either this crossing or St John's, as you can see the road from a good distance back, but unfortunately 'you should have had some common sense before crossing the road' isn't an argument anymore. 

 

Is there any sort of plan in DoI to deal with these sort of things, or are the solely focusing on the St John's crossing because that's where the accident was?

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1 hour ago, Happier diner said:

@Gladys you are wrong to speculate on the St John's accident. There are unknowns. You don't know it was anything to do with the crossing. I have cycled on there many many times and at no time have I thought I had right of way. Cycles have no right of way on a zebra crossing anyway, regardless of what it looks like.

You may be correct and the crossing should be changed to a pelican crossing with lights but that's  different matter. You do not know the details of the tragedy and its poor form to score points by citing this as a precedent for future accidents in what is a different situation on the promenade. 

This is not your best post.

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37 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

It was a terrible accident. However for the last 15 years or so there has been no crossing at all and no accidents. 

It's an awful thing to discuss on here and very emotive.

Like I keep saying I don't like the crossing and I didnt like it before. 

My point is that you are making cheap shots and they are nothing to do with the prom.

They are to do with the prom in so far as they too are using non-standard crossings. So should they undergo the same road safety audit before someone else is hurt or worse? Or after?

Mrs Hughes said the design "did nothing to warn [Mr McNicholas] of the approaching danger", and the crossing was "inadequately marked and controlled" at the time.

She made recommendations that the DOI commission a road safety audit into the crossing, consult with partner agencies including the police, and take any action recommended by that audit.

However for the last 15 years or so there has been no crossing at all and no accidents.  Just a coincidence then?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Gladys said:

At least the Broadway crossing has lights.

I’ve been surprised at some people coming down Broadway with no apparent attempt to give way or stop. Coming down Broadway myself the other day I realised that the green crossing light could be mistaken for a green traffic light at the junction. Wouldn’t be at all surprised to see a collision there because of the lights. 

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22 minutes ago, CallMeCurious said:

However for the last 15 years or so there has been no crossing at all and no accidents.  Just a coincidence then?

This is the crux of the problem, imo. 

Before DoI decided it needed fancy paint on the road, cyclists or walkers approaching the road would know to stop and look for traffic.

Once the road had been painted in a semi-zebra crossing style, anyone - particularly a child/young adult - could be forgiven for thinking that it was meant to be a safe crossing. 

I sincerely hope a few heads in DoI roll for this monumental fuck up. I can't believe whoever was responsible for this still has a job.

As CMC said on the previous page, With no accountability for this death where is the motivation to change the culture that led to it? 

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1 hour ago, Happier diner said:

It was a terrible accident. However for the last 15 years or so there has been no crossing at all and no accidents. 

 Must be a strong coincidence that I personally saw several runners/cyclists run straight across the road without looking after it was installed and that never happened previously? it looked like a continuation of the pathway/pavement and didn’t look like part of a main road, there was nothing to suggest any danger was present.

I had to slam on my brakes so hard that I left a skidmark going over the crossing, I think that was roughly 2 months previous to this fatal accident, that was due to someone not looking and just going straight across.

Say what you like but I never had a single near miss until that painted crossing was put in place and I don’t think that’s coincidence.

 

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38 minutes ago, Annoymouse said:

 Must be a strong coincidence that I personally saw several runners/cyclists run straight across the road without looking after it was installed and that never happened previously? it looked like a continuation of the pathway/pavement and didn’t look like part of a main road, there was nothing to suggest any danger was present.

I had to slam on my brakes so hard that I left a skidmark going over the crossing, I think that was roughly 2 months previous to this fatal accident, that was due to someone not looking and just going straight across.

Say what you like but I never had a single near miss until that painted crossing was put in place and I don’t think that’s coincidence.

 

Where do I defend the crossing..or not crossing. If fact I said it was no good. 

I challenged those that said it was the fault of the not crossing for saying that when they did not know.

If you read the highway code it says we should always check for oncoming traffic whether or not on a crossing. I would not cycle straight a cross without looking even if was a fully fledged zebra

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1 hour ago, CallMeCurious said:

They are to do with the prom in so far as they too are using non-standard crossings. So should they undergo the same road safety audit before someone else is hurt or worse? Or after?

Mrs Hughes said the design "did nothing to warn [Mr McNicholas] of the approaching danger", and the crossing was "inadequately marked and controlled" at the time.

She made recommendations that the DOI commission a road safety audit into the crossing, consult with partner agencies including the police, and take any action recommended by that audit.

However for the last 15 years or so there has been no crossing at all and no accidents.  Just a coincidence then?

 

 

But the heritage trail silly painted thing wasn't  a crossing was it? What was it? 

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1 hour ago, Hooly said:

I went via the railway lines from Union Mills to Crosby yesterday. The crossing at Glen Darragh Road is surprisingly open/unmarked etc especially following this inquest. One tiny blue sign saying give way. All gates wide open and inviting someone to go straight over the road. 

 

I know there should be common sense when approaching either this crossing or St John's, as you can see the road from a good distance back, but unfortunately 'you should have had some common sense before crossing the road' isn't an argument anymore. 

 

Is there any sort of plan in DoI to deal with these sort of things, or are the solely focusing on the St John's crossing because that's where the accident was?

And what about tje other 5 'crossing points' that currently have nothing. Especially by the Marown cricket club and glendarragh road. 

If you do the coast to coast from Workington to tynemouth there are 100's of non crossings.

How long can you nanny everyone.

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1 minute ago, Happier diner said:

And what about tje other 5 'crossing points' that currently have nothing. Especially by the Marown cricket club and glendarragh road. 

If you do the coast to coast from Workington to tynemouth there are 100's of non crossings.

How long can you nanny everyone.

The point is that there wasn't a problem until the DoI decided to paint the road. Had it been left unpainted the fatal accident most likely would not have happened. 

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2 hours ago, Happier diner said:

It was a terrible accident. However for the last 15 years or so there has been no crossing at all and no accidents. 

It's an awful thing to discuss on here and very emotive.

Like I keep saying I don't like the crossing and I didnt like it before. 

My point is that you are making cheap shots and they are nothing to do with the prom.

You are massively missing the point.

With no crossing it was obviously a road that you needed to cross.  The stupid painted thing and wide open gates with no signage made it appear to be an extension of the cycle path.

I don’t recall any accidents on the crossing outside Sam Webb’s either.  If you were walking in either direction you could see metal railing between you and the road that you had to follow part way up towards the church to a clear and controlled crossing.  Anybody was fully aware they were crossing a road.

Now, in each direction you can look straight down the prom and Castle street and across the road with no barrier or even a slight deviation in route.  It looks like a clear run straight through.  No change in road height or kerb and nothing really making it obvious you are crossing a road.  I will have a look when down there later but is there any noticeable change in surface for the visually impaired?

It is a busy pedestrian rout acrosss a busy road.  It unused to be obvious and now it isn’t, in fact now on the approach to it you are distracted by the “culture zone” or whatever it’s called.

It’s madness, as is the green light coming down Broadway, the fact that having completely rebuilt the road it still isn’t wide enough for traffic to pass a horse tram etc etc.

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8 minutes ago, Zarley said:

The point is that there wasn't a problem until the DoI decided to paint the road. Had it been left unpainted the fatal accident most likely would not have happened. 

That may be true. But you do not know it to be fact. That means you are speculating. That's not right. 

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1 minute ago, Happier diner said:

That may be true. But you do not know it to be fact. That means you are speculating. That's not right. 

You are as entitled to your opinion and view point, as every other living person is entitled to disagree with you 😂

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1 minute ago, Ramseyboi said:

You are massively missing the point.

With no crossing it was obviously a road that you needed to cross.  The stupid painted thing and wide open gates with no signage made it appear to be an extension of the cycle path.

I don’t recall any accidents on the crossing outside Sam Webb’s either.  If you were walking in either direction you could see metal railing between you and the road that you had to follow part way up towards the church to a clear and controlled crossing.  Anybody was fully aware they were crossing a road.

Now, in each direction you can look straight down the prom and Castle street and across the road with no barrier or even a slight deviation in route.  It looks like a clear run straight through.  No change in road height or kerb and nothing really making it obvious you are crossing a road.  I will have a look when down there later but is there any noticeable change in surface for the visually impaired?

It is a busy pedestrian rout acrosss a busy road.  It unused to be obvious and now it isn’t, in fact now on the approach to it you are distracted by the “culture zone” or whatever it’s called.

It’s madness, as is the green light coming down Broadway, the fact that having completely rebuilt the road it still isn’t wide enough for traffic to pass a horse tram etc etc.

I don't deny those things. I am not missing the point. I am agreeing with the coroner. It may have contributed to the accident. 

However we will never know for sure.

It not the same as the prom. They are crossings.  Poor maybe. 

You are missing the point. 

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