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Promenade - Megathread


slinkydevil
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5 hours ago, John Wright said:

There’s lots of suggestions that the beach height causes overtopping because it raises sea level. That’s not correct. The amount of water displaced is de minimis compared to the volume of the seas and oceans.

I think a lot of the issue is more the debris (sand and stones) that the overtopping brings. Down by Summerland it’s just water on the road and as soon as the tide goes down a bit, the water is gone.

However down by Castle Mona and the Palace, when the beach was basically level with the road, an immense amount of sand and stones were washed onto the road (and over the vehicles parked there) which then needed clearing up before the road could be reopened again.

I think it was earlier this year when a digger spend a good few weeks lowering the beach level in that area to try and prevent it from happening. 

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31 minutes ago, Asthehills said:

but it’s also an incredibly stupid bit of road “design”

You mean there should be a Keep Left bollard? In one or more safety reports, there were comments that the granite monoliths in the middle of the road should have warning signs, so I assume the same is true here.

In the video you can see the white area, which is where the pointy concrete bits are. That is to prevent pedestrians walking onto that section and then onto the horse tram tracks. Actually, the pedestrians just walk around it and over the tram tracks as they do elsewhere on the prom.

There are also the yellow lines on the road on the right of the screen, informing motorists not to stop on the tram tracks. That is in case a fully loaded horse tram arrives at full speed and causes a major incident. It would be Tony Scott's Unstoppable all over again. Can't take chances of that happening.

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5 hours ago, John Wright said:

The beach level height in Douglas has varied over the last 150 years. There are pictures of the beach height in the 1870’s and 1920’s with stones, at promenade height.

The promenade hasn’t been raised, Just widened, in all that time.

There’s lots of suggestions that the beach height causes overtopping because it raises sea level. That’s not correct. The amount of water displaced is de minimis compared to the volume of the seas and oceans.

The change in shore level is natural, it’s cyclical, and yes, the type of beach, sand or stone, and how quickly it cycles are influenced by man, with piers, harbour walls, breakwaters and groynes. And that’s not just in the harbour area, it’s up the coast. It happens every seaside resort. 

The feeling from the early 1900’s to the 1990’s was that we could make a long term difference by use of groynes and other “sea defences”. The modern view is that we can’t do much.

Overtopping has been a constant for 150 years. You’ve seen the photos of Strand Street above. It was an annual event.

The bull nose profile of the sea wall should help reduce the power of the waves by focusing them back. If the bull nose is filled in it won’t.

But go look at the original Strand ( Sand ) Street bull nose. It’s in the lane behind the Prom Methodist Church and the Christian book shop. It’s several feet higher than the 1930’s sea wall. It wasn’t a promenade sea wall, but the back wall of buildings on the east of Sand Street that backed directly onto the shore, before the hotels and boarding houses were built, and a promenade put in during the 1870’s.

The panoramic view is about 1860. No prom. 

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It won't raise the sea level but surely having sand/stones up to the walkway gives the waves an easier 'ramp' up?

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Amazingly today they had a tram horse out for training with a sign up on the back of the tram warning of this. Surely its all a bit late to start training them . I actually slowed down level with the driver and mates , there were three of them , to tell them the sign on the back of the tram was getting covered up and shortly going to blow off. Surprisingly while acknowledging the conversation they just ignored it and could see from my mirrors  they never stopped .

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if you look at whats happening on Douglas beach , since the groynes have been removed great sections of sand and shingle  about 100 yards down the beach have been scoured by the tides which run north south and   south north  when the tide turns , at times of big tides  the scour can move as fast as 8 MPH  The groynes actually prevented this scouring effect , but what also is happening is the sand and shingle are being deposited  along the Harris  prom and areas up to the palace hotel , some years ago Murtaghs used a large bulldozer  to take large amounts of sand and gravel back down the beach  back to the areas where the scouring took place , this worked and we had several years with very little storm deposits washed up onto the roadway  also in the winter the seaweed was always left  weil  down the beach to form a natural break for incoming waves and also be benificial to the bird and aquatic life , this gets removed now leaving the beach to form a natural ramp for the waves to wash everything right up onto the promenade and roadway , 

I cant wait for the first real easterly gale to see how inadequet and poorly designed the drains are  and how they will cope , the prom is a disaster in design and shoddy workmanship , the DOI will never be away from it !

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12 hours ago, Asthehills said:

I have only just seen this from MGP

Fast forward to 2:12 and if you aren’t in the group you might not be able to see it.

Yes the biker is at fault, but it’s also an incredibly stupid bit of road “design”

https://www.facebook.com/garry.bolton/videos/595062835620785/?d=n&idorvanity=200853773380449

Seems the biker is (a bit of) a plonker, and the person who published the video can't spell "roundel".

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I have witnessed several drivers clipping the curb  on the inside lane down there , you can see the rubber marks , the whole thing is poorly designed and at night the lighting is very poor ,  never mind in a couple of months it will be covered in sand and debris from the beach and those silly traffic lights  that don't look to be weatherproof , will soon start to  corrode when the salt and sand gets to them , ,an expensive over engineered  disaster !

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13 hours ago, Numbnuts said:

Yes agreed , and you can have a 5 metre plus swell on easily so if onshore its just going to run onto the roadway . I mean whats to stop it ! 

5 meter breaking wave, possibly.  Not swell and not easily.

Generally a breaking wave at the shore will be about double the swell height as it starts to break, it will effectively suck water forming a trough infront of itself.

The biggest wave ever recorded in the Irish Sea proper was at the M2 meteorological buoy to the east of Dublin  with a record significant wave height of 6.6m measured at 18.00 on Monday 16th October 2017 during Hurricane Ophelia, which was widely regarded as the worst storm to affect Ireland in 50 years.

During the same storm other buoys also recorded at M5 - 12.9m and M3 - 13.5m. 

Generally the Irish Sea doesn't get swell that is massive.  It's actually the swell period (the gap between waves) that makes it so treacherous.  We get pretty short periods, so it's almost like a machine gun effect compared to those big slow well spaced open ocean swells you might think of that vessels can leisurely roll over.  

 

The Irish Weather Buoy Network

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